Bavarian Lagers in latest Zymurgy

[StoneHands]

I received my copy of the latest Zymurgy yesterday, the Nov/Dec 2009. The article by Horst Dornbusch entitled "Bavaria's 'Extreme' Lagers" was really interesting to me. I wondered if anyone has tried the mashing technique he described, summed up for a 5 gallon batch, as this:

Dough in really thick to 100F (4 gallons strike water) allowing a 1 hour rest.
Infuse one gallon of boiling water 6 times every 15 minutes to bring the mash up to 172F, which is the mashout temp.

The recipes for both the doppelbock (15.75 lbs grain) and the Maibock (13.7 lbs of grain) listed these same instructions. The reasoning in the article is that it is "A simple way of raising the mash temperature gradually to the mash-out temperature...-with sufficient time for all beta-glucan, protein, and sugar rests..." He also states that this initial rest around 100F "allow(s) the grain bed to hydrate... will greatly enhance both extract efficiency and lautering speed as well as the finished brew's malt flavor."

I haven't run the temps through to see where the rests would land, I would think it would vary based on your grain bill weight. This is a bit more involved than I've done in the past, I've been limited to single or double infusions max.

Anyone experimented with this?

 

[BigEd]

That sounds like a version of a ramped infusion something akin to what some of the mega brewers use. A-B starts mashing about 115F then slowly and continually raises the temperature. It's designed to wring every last sugar molecule out of the grain. For homebrewing German and other Continental lagers I'm sticking to decoctions. The method will surely work although it seems overly long at the low temp end. Perhaps it would increase the extract percentage slightly but if I'm going to spend extra time mashing I'll stay with decoctions. As for all that time between 100 to 135F it is only a matter of time before the "You shouldn't do a protein rest Police" jump all over it.

 

[StoneHands]

That's interesting to me, hadn't heard of this method before. By my simple spreadsheet (I don't have Beersmith or anything), I don't think this will get up to the mashout temperature stated, but you could massage the numbers quite easily I think to get there, starting with the 4 gallons quoted for the strike volume, which isn't that thick, about 1qt/lb.
As far as the protein rest goes, I've never done one, seemingly because it doesn't seem necessary (I'm waiting on those police too). I haven't heard anyone say though that they have first hand experience with the protein rest causing problems.
This seems just as time consuming as a decoction mash, so I was wondering if it had added benefit over that method. May have to give either a decoction or this method a try.
Bavarian lagers are my beer of choice, this article was really enjoyable to read.

 

[Kaiser]

I must really be on the last stop of the “Zymurgy Truck” since I have not gotten it yet.

We discussed this over on the NB forum as well. I didn’t know Horst Dornbusch wrote the article.

I think it should work and is worth a try. But I’d be curious where he found this mash schedule. He is not a home brewer and I doubt that he used it himself. It is also a mash schedule not suitable for modern mashing technology. At least as far as I can tell since the mixers in mash tuns can’t really deal with a mash that thick.

I have met him before. He is local to the Boston area and tends to attend larger beer events. Maybe when I meet him again I have to ask him about this. As well as the Pilsner mashing at a pH of 4.5, which based on my own work, shouldn’t work that well.

He also wrote a BYO article recently. Maybe I should read it to see if there is anything I wouldn’t agree with.

Kai

 

[BigEd]

. I haven't heard anyone say though that they have first hand experience with the protein rest causing problems.

One thing I do enjoy about this forum is that there does not seem to be a cadre of the aforementioned "Protein Rest Police" jumping on folks who dare to bring up the topic. When you have some spare time go to the B3 and NB forums and search topics such as "protein rest", "step mashing" and "decoction".

 

[Kaiser]

One thing I do enjoy about this forum is that there does not seem to be a cadre of the aforementioned "Protein Rest Police" jumping on folks who dare to bring up the topic. When you have some spare time go to the B3 and NB forums and search topics such as "protein rest", "step mashing" and "decoction".

I thought we were over this on the NB forum. Maybe I'm not jumping onto enough threads these days. I encourage brewers to try it form themselves while telling them that there is no strong evidence against and for doing that rest. The need for it clearly doesn't exist anymore but there are a lot of respectable brewers on either side of this discussion.

Kai