Band aid smell is back - infection or overheating?

[brianpablo]

Hi everyone - I've now got a second batch of medicine-smelling beer, in what appears to be a rerun of the band-aid saison I described here.

People usually describe this as a result of chlorophenols resulting from chlorine-based sanitizers, which I can pretty well rule out because I'm using Star-San which is not bleach based. I'm now preparing to dump five gallons of Dunkel recipe I brewed a few weeks back because the flavor is just harsh and unpleasant. It sounds like there are some wild yeast strains that could do this sort of thing, though I also wonder if it might be a result of fermentation temps.

I use a rudimentary swamp cooler, but my general experience has been that things happen really fast here living near the equator. Fermentation is aggressive, attenuation is frequently above 90 percent, and the job gets done quick. With the saison I didn't bother to cool it all, per the instructions that came with the yeast. I did set the dunkel in a swamp cooler, but I used Wyeast 3068 which is already famously aggressive. By the morning it had already blown off the bung and covered the walls of the shower with krausen. The result was a medicinal taste and smell.

Any votes on what the problem is? I've been trying to stick to dry yeast because I think this climate is somehow very aggressive for the liquid ones.

If it's an infection I could take some guesses - change the line? new stockpot? Could my aquarium pump aeration system be contributing? Carboy? Bottling bucket?

Ideas most welcome - thanks!!!

 

[Drizzt]

I did not pitch my yeast in a batch until the next morning because I was getting encouraged "yelled at" by SWMBO. It was the general consensus that I got bit by wild yeast.


I'm not sure if my the flavors in my beer are off or complex 😳

 

[WayFrae]

Bleach is not the only source of chlorine. What water are you using for your brew? Most tap water is treated with chlorine or chloramine.

Edit: Also, you could be fermenting too warm and getting some off flavors from that. I imagine with the higher humidity at the equator a swamp cooler won't really help much.

 

[Ctownbrewery]

If I remember correctly, a very long time ago, I remember a friend of mine have the same experience as you. His problem ended up being the air line from his aquarium pump.

 

[Yooper]

Bleach is not the only source of chlorine. What water are you using for your brew? Most tap water is treated with chlorine or chloramine.

Edit: Also, you could be fermenting too warm and getting some off flavors from that. I imagine with the higher humidity at the equator a swamp cooler won't really help much.

It's most likely the water, as that is the most common source of chlorophenols. It could be possibly infection, but it does tend to be chlorine that produces those flavors. Unless you're brewing with distilled water, I'd look at the brewing water as the likely source. Hot fermentation temperatures can make it worse, but don't cause those flavors.

 

[brianpablo]

That's helpful, I feel a bit like it might be the water. It's delivered to my house by a company that I don't know anything about where it comes from. I've always used that water and haven't had problems in the past, though it's not out of the question that something about the water has changed. Are there cheap ways of testing for chlorine content? Any recommendations on kits would be most welcome. Thanks, Brian

 

[Ctownbrewery]

I'm not sure of kits in your area, however if you have a near by pool store you could always take a sample to them. Try to take a sample of the water in a sanitized glass container. Another option would be to call who ever supplied the water and ask for a report.

 

[broncosmoker]

While there is a chance of ch.orophenols due to water there are also other phenolic issues which you may have.

Causes: Wild yeast, sanitation issues, certain yeast strains. Formed during fermentation from precursor, ferulic acid. Can also be extracted from grain husks due to over crushing, over sparging, or sparging with hot or alkaline water.
Fix: Proper sanitation, change yeast strain, proper sparging, adjust grain mill crush.

It is difficult to trouble shoot exactly one thing, but you also need to look at some of your procedures besides just water.

You might want to also look at camden tabs if you think it is more water than procedure.

 

[IrishBrewer74]

I had the same thing... It was weird cause it was only certain yeasts... Hefe yeast in particular. After several batches, changing one component at a time, I narrowed it my tap water. Made sure to use either spring water or water i bring home from our cottage (artesian well) and problem has never returned.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[flars]

I came across this technique for using an aquarium pump for aeration. May not be your specific problem, but not a bad idea for eliminating a possible source of infection.

http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue1.2/paris.html

 

[klaggy]

I came across this technique for using an aquarium pump for aeration. May not be your specific problem, but not a bad idea for eliminating a possible source of infection.

http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue1.2/paris.html

Or an inline HEPA filter would work too



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[frank_wood1966]

Hi everyone - I've now got a second batch of medicine-smelling beer, in what appears to be a rerun of the band-aid saison I described here.

People usually describe this as a result of chlorophenols resulting from chlorine-based sanitizers, which I can pretty well rule out because I'm using Star-San which is not bleach based. I'm now preparing to dump five gallons of Dunkel recipe I brewed a few weeks back because the flavor is just harsh and unpleasant. It sounds like there are some wild yeast strains that could do this sort of thing, though I also wonder if it might be a result of fermentation temps.

I use a rudimentary swamp cooler, but my general experience has been that things happen really fast here living near the equator. Fermentation is aggressive, attenuation is frequently above 90 percent, and the job gets done quick. With the saison I didn't bother to cool it all, per the instructions that came with the yeast. I did set the dunkel in a swamp cooler, but I used Wyeast 3068 which is already famously aggressive. By the morning it had already blown off the bung and covered the walls of the shower with krausen. The result was a medicinal taste and smell.

Any votes on what the problem is? I've been trying to stick to dry yeast because I think this climate is somehow very aggressive for the liquid ones.

If it's an infection I could take some guesses - change the line? new stockpot? Could my aquarium pump aeration system be contributing? Carboy? Bottling bucket?

Ideas most welcome - thanks!!!

I know this thread is a little old but wanted to add my two cents. I had batches like yours where I had the same problem, to the point where I had to ditch them. You can even smell it as you bottle the beer.

Mine came down to the water -- it was chlorine/chloramine. Get yourself some campden tablets and follow the directions. I believe one tablet is good for 20GL of water so you may need some sort of pill cutter. Good luck!

 

[oceanic_brew]

I had two batches that had terrible off flavors exactly like the band-aid chloro/phenolic that is suggested by OP, that was on my first two batches that I used diversol(pink cleaner) to clean and sanitiZe all my equipment. I eventually switched to oxyclean and had no problems

Until.....

I made three changes to my procedure and equipment that made the reoccurrence of the off flavor almost impossible to narrow down.

1) i was using some non-food safe tubing accidentally that wasn't ok to use at the temp i used it at. I usually sparged with boiling water and had over 180 degree water coming through my line out of the mash tun.

2) I started doing no chill brewing and used a regular plastic bucket where I poured 180 wort through the same tubing as mentioned before.

3) I went back to using diversol for these batches

I also suspected and noticed an increase in chlorine at that particular time of the year which was confirmed by my GF who works for the water utility here.

I plumbed my whole system with copper, changed the cleaner to oxy, used Camden tabs. Never happened again.

 

[Redlantern]

I always draw my brew water 48 hours out and take it out of the tap as hot as I can get it (I have an on-demand water system, so no water tank schmutz is involved). I put both mash and sparge in one vessel for this. Chlorine loves to find another home when I do this. I leave the lid only partially on to allow steam to escape.

24 hours in advance of brewing, the Campden tablet is added.

The water remains quite warm in the igloo HLT and is still well over 100°F when it is used two days later.

By doing this, I have noted a significant drop in the smell of chlorine from what can be heavily chlorinated water.

 

[brianpablo]

I've actually thought long and hard about this one and ultimately came to a slightly different conclusion than the one I had originally reached. That brew did have a harsh Band-aid type smell, but it also had an almost anesthetic quality that numbed the tongue. In retrospect, I think this beer fermented too hot for this particular yeast, which is dangerous in my situation because I get aggressive fermentation due to the high altitude and a tropical climate where I live. It probably shouldn't go much above 65, I and I doubt this was any cooler than 70. I think the result was an excessively pronounced phenolic profile, meaning that the usual clove flavors often present in dunkelweizens turned into the sensation of chewing on a handful of cloves - mouth numbing and overpowering spice flavor. (It also resulted in a blown-out stopper and dunkelweizen covering the walls and ceiling). I do not think this resulted from either an infection or from the presence of bleach (I generally use Star-san). I've learned to keep things much cooler. I made another dunkelweizen this year using Danstar Munich and it seemed to capture the fruitiness of the style without giving me the excess clove sensation. Temperature control sure is a pain in the arse, but man does it do wonders.

 

[Drk93TT]

A few of my batches had phenolic flavors. I ended up attributing it to a combination of:
- Not temperature controlled fermentations (i.e. throwing the fermenter in a ambient temp room around 66-68 degrees most likely pushing temps outside of ideal range of most yeasts during active primary ferm)
- disassembling boil kettle to fermenter ball valve and cleaning it every couple batches... and more stringent cleaning and sanitizing of all cold side equipment
- Running water too fast thru my under sink filter for brewing ... oh that reminds me I still sprinkle a tiny amount of campden tablet in all of my brewing water.