Balancing pH and Alkalinity

[Spartan1979]

I'm planning on brewing a German Pilsener this weekend. Pils malt, some Carapils and a little melanoidin malt. According to Palmer's water book, the guidelines are:

Ca 50-75
Alkalinity 0-40
Sulfate 50-150
Chloride 50-100
Kolbach RA -60-0

My recipe calls for 7.67 gallons of water. Since I'm starting with RO water, adding 2.5 gms of gypsum, 6.1 gms of Calcium Chloride and 6.1 gms of Epsom Salts using EZ Water gives me:

Ca 78
Alkalinity 3
Sulfate 129
Chloride 104
Kolbach RA -64
pH 5.67

My problem is that if I add acidulated malt to drop the pH, the Alkalinity and the RA drop significantly. Then if I add Baking Soda to raise the that the pH rises. It's a big circle.

Any suggestions?

Also, does the portion of the above water that is going to be used for sparging need to to have the pH adjusted?

Thanks.

 

[monkeyman1000]

The mash pH ( at room temp ) is what you are shooting for. Forget about RA.

 

[mabrungard]

Those are VERY general guidelines. In addition, the most important thing is where the mash pH ends up at. As mentioned, RA is not a meaningful target, pH is.

If the pH is too low after adding acid malt...don't add as much of it...don't chase your tail and add an alkali to correct it.

 

[Yooper]

And, from my own experience, ditch the epsom salts in a German pilsner and consider only a modest sulfate addition. A medium sulfate amount is great for a German pilsner.

I mean, like 30-50 ppm of sulfate, and not nearly the amount listed in your profile above. And lower the chloride- a lot. You don't really need any calcium chloride at all, but if you're going to use it drop it in half, or even lower.

 

[MerlinWerks]

duplicate

 

[MerlinWerks]

And, from my own experience, ditch the epsom salts in a German pilsner and consider only a modest sulfate addition. A medium sulfate amount is great for a German pilsner.

I mean, like 30-50 ppm of sulfate, and not nearly the amount listed in your profile above. And lower the chloride- a lot. You don't really need any calcium chloride at all, but if you're going to use it drop it in half, or even lower.

Hi Yooper,

Is your recommendation of little to no calcium chloride addition (to an all RO base) for the style the OP is trying to brew or do you recommend this for most styles?

Thanks

 

[Yooper]

Hi Yooper,

Is your recommendation of little to no calcium chloride addition to all RO

Yes, a little bit is fine. Some people like to bring their calcium up to 40 ppm or so for better yeast flocculation, but with a lager it's not really necessary.

 

[ajdelange]

I'd like to point out that some very fine beers are made with very soft (low mineral content) water but that there are few simpler ways to improve the mouthfeel, roundness, mellowness and sweetness of a beer than to boost the chloride a bit. Those old enough to remember the days when the old times added a bit of salt to their beer will understand. Thus I point out that you do want some calcium chloride in lagers not so much for the calcium as for the chloride. Of course you can over do it (the beer becomes cloying and if you go way to far, salty). I seem to use about 50 mg/L chloride in my lagers.

The remarks about RA in this thread are fascinating. It used to be considered the ticket to understanding mash pH but now I just realized that the spreadsheet I use to calculate mash pH doesn't even show it (or calculate it). But its spirit lives on implicitly if not explicitly. It's definition:
RA = alk - ([Ca++]/3.5 + Mg/7) says that each 3.5 mEq of Ca++ yields up 1 mEq of protons and it is necessary to consider the protons from the calcium (and magnesium) interaction with phosphate in calculating mash pH just as we need to consider the protons from added phosphoric or lactic acid.

 

[TimmyWit]

Also, does the portion of the above water that is going to be used for sparging need to to have the pH adjusted?

Thanks.

I just started brewing with RO water myself and I have been using Bru n' Water to help me with the calculations. On the instructions for water report input, he states:

"If only RO or distilled water is used for brewing, it may not be necessary to acidify the sparge water. Acidification of sparge water is performed only to reduce the sparge water alkalinity to low levels. pH targets for acidification are only indicators of low alkalinity. Alkalinity reduction is the real goal of acidification."

With that in mind, I go straight to tab 3, water adjustment. Choose your desired profile (yellow balanced, bitter, malty, etc). Select 100% RO for the dilution water profile. From there, I just play with the gypsum and CaCl additions until the finished water profile shows green for the following: calcium, magnesium, sodium, sulfate, and chloride.

For example, if you plug in "yellow balanced", .4g/gallon each of gypsum and CaCl will get you in the green. So 3.2g of each would be about right for 8 gallons of water.

Then go to tab 4 and plug in your malt bill. From there you can add acid malt or lactic acid to dial in your mash ph.

 

[ajdelange]

This thread should be titled 'Balancing alkakinity and acidity at the desired pH' because that is exactly what you must do. Supply enough acid (from a bottle, from acidulated malt or from dark grains) to balance the alkalinity of your malts and the water at the desired mash pH. Obviously one way to start off in this direction is to adjust the pH of your brewing water (mash and sparge) to the desired pH. In so doing you have zeroed out the alkalinity of the water. All that remains is to zero the alkalinity of the base malt.

One simply adds bits of acid to the water until it reaches pH 5.4 (or whatever your target is). If the water is alkaline you will add lots of acid. If it isn't you will add only a tiny bit. You are doing exactly what the guy in the lab does when he measures alkalinity (except that he works with a few mL of water and keeps going to pH 4.4 or so). Thus you automatically add the amount of acid necessary for the mashing and sparging demands of the water (but not the malt(s) - they are a separate calculation).