Aw D$%&, I forgot the Irish Moss!

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Homercidal

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Brewed a Blonde ale last weekend and just realized I forgot the irish moss (actually, whirlfloc...) at the end of the boil!

Everything went pretty good, pH, efficiency, volumes, etc.

I pitched US-05 on well-oxygenated wort and krausen was climbing 2 days later (I didn't check the day after pitching...)

Now I'm wondering if I'm going to have to add a fining agent to get this really clear. My plan was to rack to secondary and after a couple of days chill down to almost lagering temps for 2-3 weeks.

I mean, I don't need it to be sparkling, crystal clear, but I wonder how cloudy it's going to be in the end.

I need Beersmith to print in BIG BOLD LETTERS, "DON'T FORGET THE IRISH MOSS!!"
 
gelatin and cold crash, FTW!

Yeah, I guess so. I'm just pissed this happens way too often. My experience with gelatin hasn't bee great thus far. I've tried it on two beers and I didn't notice a real improvement on either. The second was a Rye Pale Ale that had a lot of rye in it. Both the US-05 and the S-04 ferments turned out the same.

Or you just have cloudy beer. It's pretty much just aesthetic. RDWHAHB.

I don't mind it if most beers are a bit cloudy, or has some chill haze. I'm used to fairly cloudy IPAs and such. But I really wanted to try and make sure all my steps were done right, and I hoped to be able to share this with some non-homebrew people and not scare them away with it.

I've had issues with some blonde ales before (And brewed a few mice ones). I really just wanted to get it right this time. A light, well balanced, clear, summer ale.
 
So I guess I rack to secondary, chill down and let it sit for a while, then pitch gelatin when I rack to the keg?

that'll work. i forgot whirlfloc in my last saison...gelatin cleared it up.
 
I would just give it extra time. I've had wheats with no whirlfloc or gel pour crystal clear after 4 weeks in car boy and 3 weeks in bottle.
 
I've had issues with some blonde ales before (And brewed a few mice ones). I really just wanted to get it right this time. A light, well balanced, clear, summer ale.

Did you put the mice in at flameout, or in the secondary?

The little buggers are FAST. I find flameout works best. They squeak for a second, then - silence.
 
I would just give it extra time. I've had wheats with no whirlfloc or gel pour crystal clear after 4 weeks in car boy and 3 weeks in bottle.

Ditto. If you have the time 4-5 weeks will fully clear most beers in my experience. You can read a newspaper at 100 yards through my saisons after 6 weeks in carboy. :D
 
Did you put the mice in at flameout, or in the secondary?

The little buggers are FAST. I find flameout works best. They squeak for a second, then - silence.
Just read this... I honestly laughed pretty loud... co-worker across the cube-farm asked me what's going on lol.
 
So I guess I rack to secondary, chill down and let it sit for a while, then pitch gelatin when I rack to the keg?

No reason that shouldn't work.

I usually skip the secondary, and just chill in the primary for a couple days to a week. Then add gelatin to the chilled primary, and let it sit a few more days to a week. Then rack to keg and force carb/lager.

That way I don't get any gelatin or sediment in my keg, and once it's carbed-up, it's crystal clear. My last few brews have been unbelievably clear, and I'm kicking myself for ever wasting money on that plate filter that's collecting dust.
 
Did you put the mice in at flameout, or in the secondary?

The little buggers are FAST. I find flameout works best. They squeak for a second, then - silence.

Hilarious!

Too bad my cats have done their duty and cleared our property as far as I can tell. I know we have a red squirrel and a gopher of some sort hanging around. One of them found a way into our house and can be heard some times scratching in the ceiling. I just have to figure out how to get them out before I seal the access point. I'd drop either of them into the boil kettle. (Although they would be better used roasted on the grill with some bacon and a nice IPA...)
 
How clear it is, is just aesthetics. Just call it a Dirty Blonde and it'll be fine. ;)
 
The cold conditioning will clear it up better than Irish Moss ever would, IMO.

Do you really notice a big difference using Irish Moss? I used to but stopped and didn't see a noticeable change. Maybe practices got better, cold storage in a keg helped, etc.... but I never really noticed Irish Moss getting my beers crystal clear.
 
The beers I use Whirlfoc in are night and day when comparing clarity. Usually, cold conditioning for a time will help clear it up, so your 2-3 wk lager should help. When I forget whirlfloc usually my beer is clear by the last pint I drink.
 
I haven't really done a side-by-side, but I imagine it depends on the recipe and methods. I happen to forget to add the Irish moss/whirlfloc fairly often, so I don't know for sure how much difference it makes.

In general I don't worry too much about it if I am kegging the beer. I make IPAs regularly and Witbiers, where clarity is not a requirement. In this case I was just shootin gto get everything right and it was just one of those small details that got overlooked. At least it will give me a chance to try gelatin again, and this time I will add it before carbing.
 
Do you guys just pretty much add whirlfloc to every batch of beer you brew? Regardless of style?
 
Ok. My next batch on deck is a porter, but I'll toss one in anyway. Sounds like it can't hurt.

Thanks
 
I use it in every beer. I can't cold crash anything until it's in kegs, as my fermentation chamber won't go below 55F, and my English ales in the cask never see temperatures below 55F anyway. The English ales are crystal clear after couple of weeks conditioning in the cask at 60F, thanks to whirlfloc and WLP002. Even my hefe has dropped clear after a month in the kegerator.
 
Is the process the same for botteling? as it seems everyone on this thread seems to be kegging. Kegging is my next step, but my brew partner is concerned about the clarity of our brews. I am not familiar with any agents to aid clarity. I have no real idea of what;whirlfloc, wlp002, irishmoss, *flocc?, or the gelatin you have spoken of are. Any info would be great, or reference to another thread. Thanks
 
I don't agree that beer clarity is just aesthetic. It depends on what is causing the haze, but I've had split batches where one is cleared and the other hazy and there is a significant taste difference to me, and I much prefer the clear one.
 
whenever I forget the whirlfloc or irish moss, I just slap a random person at work. it won't make my beer any clearer, but it makes me feel better.
 
You can always filter which is what I do :) most people poo poo it, but in my mind, it does what others wait weeks for in about 2-3 minutes.
 
You can always filter which is what I do :) most people poo poo it, but in my mind, it does what others wait weeks for in about 2-3 minutes.

2-3 minutes?!?!? Filtering for me took at a minimum 30 min if everything went like a dream. Could often take more than 2 hours when trying to force 10g through a coarse and fine plate filter.
 
I have no real idea of what;whirlfloc, wlp002, irishmoss, *flocc?, or the gelatin you have spoken of are.

Whirlfloc is a product you add at the end of the boil. It causes proteins in the boil to coagulate and clump together, reducing the amount of proteins that would otherwise stay in solution right through until the first time the finished beer is chilled (where it would then precipitate as "chill haze," causing the beer to be cloudy). It's basically the same thing as Irish moss (which is cheaper).

WLP002 is a liquid yeast from White Labs.

Irish Moss is a kind of seaweed which is dried and crushed up, and added to the wort near the end of the boil. It does the same thing as Whirlfloc.

*flocc is not a thing I'm aware of. "Flocculation" describes a yeast's propensity to clump together, which causes it to precipitate out of solution faster (because the bigger clumps weigh more). A "low flocculating yeast" is one that will take longer to fall out of solution, resulting in cloudier beer.

Gelatin is the same kind of gelatin that is on the shelf at your grocery store. You mix it up and add it to the beer after fermentation has finished. It helps "pull" precipitates out of suspension, assisting in clearing the beer. To prepare it, sprinkle 1 tbsp of it into 1 cup of room-temperature water. Leave it for 20 minutes to "bloom." Then heat it up in the microwave, 15-20 seconds at a time, until it reaches 150-160° F. DO NOT let it boil. Then stir to ensure it's dissolved, and pour it into the beer. If you can cool the beer beforehand (i.e., move the fermenter into a refrigerator a day or two prior to adding the gelatin), it will be much more effective.

I end up with very clear beer, because I take measures at several points in the brewing process. I do the following:


  • At the end of mashing, I use a grant and a pump to recirculate the wort back into the mash/lauter tun until it's clear. Then I switch the output of the grant to the boil kettle instead of recirculating. This means that once I've started drawing runnings from the mash/lauter tun, I don't have to close the valve while switching to the kettle, then re-open it, which can disturb the grain bed.
  • I use a hop screen to contain my pellet hops during the boil.
  • I use Irish Moss in the last 10 minutes of the boil.
  • I chill extremely quickly, using a plate chiller, a pump, and a cooler full of ice water. I get my wort from boiling down to 65° F in about 6-7 minutes.
  • I recirculate my wort from the chiller back into the kettle during chilling, instead of going straight to the fermenter. Then, once chilled, I rack the wort from the kettle to the fermenter using an autosiphon. This allows me to siphon the wort from the "top down," getting all the clear stuff first, then at the end, I can stop the siphon once I get to the break-rich dregs at the bottom.
  • I leave my beers for 3 weeks to ferment and begin clearing.
  • I cold crash in a fridge.
  • I add gelatin and leave it for another 3-4 days.
  • I keg my beers, so after a couple more weeks in the keg, the beer is crystal clear.
 
Just reading this now but we went through a period where like 3 brews in a row we forgot the whirlfloc. Finally we would put the container next to the measured hops to be added to the BK so we wouldn't forget and that has seemed to work. You can tell a difference in brightness but not taste.

We've had good luck with the couple of beers where we used gelatin. I put in keezer for a couple weeks to carb up and usually toward the end of that period is when I add the gelatin. I wait about 3 days and then pour a couple of glasses down the drain and after that the beer is very clear. We are serving a few of our beers at a festival in 2 weeks and I have a PtY clone that I just added gelatin to yesterday as I wanted it to pour clear and it had a definite hop haze from the 4 separate dry hops over 4 weeks time. Hoping the gelatin doesn't strip away too much of the hop flavor but it was over the top hoppy (288 IBU in Beersmith) so could lose a little without much of an issue.
 
2-3 minutes?!?!? Filtering for me took at a minimum 30 min if everything went like a dream. Could often take more than 2 hours when trying to force 10g through a coarse and fine plate filter.

2-3 Minutes might have been a bit low but I can probably do 5 gallons in no more than 10 minutes.

Maybe it's the difference between plate filters and cylindrical ones?! I use 9-3/4" Pentek Pleated Cellulose-Polyester ECP1-10 which, according to the datasheet, can do about 10 gallons per min. I tend to do it little slower, since my fittings don't take ~1 psi that well.
 
I have a PtY clone that I just added gelatin to yesterday as I wanted it to pour clear and it had a definite hop haze from the 4 separate dry hops over 4 weeks time. Hoping the gelatin doesn't strip away too much of the hop flavor but it was over the top hoppy (288 IBU in Beersmith) so could lose a little without much of an issue.

A couple comments here.

Firstly, adding gelatin to the keg will clear the beer, but only if you don't move the keg. Once you move the keg, you disturb the sediment at the bottom and it mixes back up into suspension. If you want/need to move the keg, and you want the beer to be clear, then you have to rack it to another keg after letting the gelatin clear it.

Secondly, unfortunately, yes gelatin does indeed strip away hop flavour and aroma. If you're making a big, hoppy beer, and you want clarity, then you need to cold crash and add gelatin before adding the dry hops. Ideally, you would rack the beer to another vessel after clearing it with gelatin, but before adding the dry hops. Yes, this will impart some "hop haze" to the beer and it won't be perfectly clear, but that's to style for IPAs/Double IPAs, and it's a necessary aspect of a really hoppy beer.

Thirdly, the IBU level has nothing to do with hoppiness. IBU is a measure of bitterness, not hoppiness. Dry hopping adds hop flavour and aroma, but no IBUs (additional bitterness) whatsoever. Gelatin will not strip away bitterness (thus, your IBU level will remain the same), but it will strip away the hop flavour and aroma imparted by dry hopping.

In short, if you're making a big, hoppy beer to be transported and served on-site, and you want it as clear as possible, then the ideal sequence would be:


  • Ferment for 3 weeks
  • Cold crash for 2 days
  • Add gelatin, leave refrigerated for 3-4 more days
  • Carefully rack beer to another fermenter, leaving behind as much sediment as possible
  • Allow beer to warm back up to room temperature (since hop oils are more soluble at warmer temperatures)
  • Dry hop for 7-10 days
  • Cold crash again for 2-3 days
  • Rack to a keg, again leaving behind sediment (i.e., pellet hop gunk), begin carbonating

That's as clear as you can get a hoppy beer, without sacrificing hop flavour and aroma by filtering or adding post-dry-hopping gelatin.
 
Whirlfloc is a product you add at the end of the boil. It causes proteins in the boil to coagulate and clump together, reducing the amount of proteins that would otherwise stay in solution right through until the first time the finished beer is chilled (where it would then precipitate as "chill haze," causing the beer to be cloudy). It's basically the same thing as Irish moss (which is cheaper).

WLP002 is a liquid yeast from White Labs.

Irish Moss is a kind of seaweed which is dried and crushed up, and added to the wort near the end of the boil. It does the same thing as Whirlfloc.

*flocc is not a thing I'm aware of. "Flocculation" describes a yeast's propensity to clump together, which causes it to precipitate out of solution faster (because the bigger clumps weigh more). A "low flocculating yeast" is one that will take longer to fall out of solution, resulting in cloudier beer.

Gelatin is the same kind of gelatin that is on the shelf at your grocery store. You mix it up and add it to the beer after fermentation has finished. It helps "pull" precipitates out of suspension, assisting in clearing the beer. To prepare it, sprinkle 1 tbsp of it into 1 cup of room-temperature water. Leave it for 20 minutes to "bloom." Then heat it up in the microwave, 15-20 seconds at a time, until it reaches 150-160° F. DO NOT let it boil. Then stir to ensure it's dissolved, and pour it into the beer. If you can cool the beer beforehand (i.e., move the fermenter into a refrigerator a day or two prior to adding the gelatin), it will be much more effective.

I end up with very clear beer, because I take measures at several points in the brewing process. I do the following:


  • At the end of mashing, I use a grant and a pump to recirculate the wort back into the mash/lauter tun until it's clear. Then I switch the output of the grant to the boil kettle instead of recirculating. This means that once I've started drawing runnings from the mash/lauter tun, I don't have to close the valve while switching to the kettle, then re-open it, which can disturb the grain bed.
  • I use a hop screen to contain my pellet hops during the boil.
  • I use Irish Moss in the last 10 minutes of the boil.
  • I chill extremely quickly, using a plate chiller, a pump, and a cooler full of ice water. I get my wort from boiling down to 65° F in about 6-7 minutes.
  • I recirculate my wort from the chiller back into the kettle during chilling, instead of going straight to the fermenter. Then, once chilled, I rack the wort from the kettle to the fermenter using an autosiphon. This allows me to siphon the wort from the "top down," getting all the clear stuff first, then at the end, I can stop the siphon once I get to the break-rich dregs at the bottom.
  • I leave my beers for 3 weeks to ferment and begin clearing.
  • I cold crash in a fridge.
  • I add gelatin and leave it for another 3-4 days.
  • I keg my beers, so after a couple more weeks in the keg, the beer is crystal clear.

Thank ypu so much for the breakdown! Very helpful#
 
I just did my first beer with moss. Going to rack soon.

Question--should the wort have looked different during the boil? I mean, should there have been a big wad of sludge that came out of suspension? Maybe I'll have my answer when I rack, but the wort (and now beer) looked no different than the non-mossed stuff I've always made.
 
I'll definitely be using Irish Moss the next time I make the ale that's sitting in my fridge now; the first bottle I poured looked suspiciously like beige milk :confused:
 
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