Are all auto siphons created equal? So pissed

[Dabba]

So I just went to rack my first brew to secondary and it was a nightmare. I wanted to clear the primary and get rid of some of the sediment and I think I ended up airating it a ton and definitely dragged a lot of the trub along with it.

I had my primary way off the ground and my secondary on the ground and after priming the autosiphon it would work fine for a bit and then start backing up, so I had to keep pumping it and it kept moving the beer back and forth in the tube. Do I just have a crappy autosiphon? Or is physics broken today?

It's bubbling happily again but.. Really concerned I ruined my batch of beer. On top of it, I have a ton of headspace in my 5G carboy.. I don't know where the rest went!!

 

[Nokie]

How does your hose fit? I had a hose on mine that was super tight. So tight I had to warm it up to get it on the racking cane part. And I changed it to a longer hose that was supposedly the same size 3/8. But when I put it on it slid right on easily and since it didn't fit tight I kept losing my siphon and it would bubble like crazy and l ran into the same thing it sounds like you're going through

 

[Yooper]

The idea is to rack (siphon) from above the sediment. So I start in the middle, and slowly lower the racking cane as the level of the beer lowers. Once you suck up some trub, you're done!

It's easiest if you put the fermenter up on a block or something the night before, so that the sediment goes more to one side so that you can siphon only clear beer from the other side.

It sounds like you racked way too soon, though, if fermentation is happening. Next time, wait until at least day 7 or longer (for many it's at least two weeks) before racking. Or, depending on what you are making, you may want to forgo racking to secondary, especially if you're going to have a ton of headspace!

 

[Brownalemikie]

It took me 2 auto siphons to figure out that you never want to slide the racking tube inside the bigger tube while its dry or you'll get small nicks in the rubber grommet/seal which will cause aeration in your brew. I always dip the end of racking tube in Starsan before inserting it in the big tube. HTH

 

[Dabba]

I'll test it out on water and see what I can make of it next time. I didn't have a problem with it during brew day. I did start in the middle and try not to pick up trub but I was worried about the headspace. Should I check my siphon out or just get a new one? And my bubbling was pretty much stooped on day 13 so i figured I'd do it now. The good thing I guess is the co2 will push the o2 out....

Did I ruined it though?

 

[wysiwyg]

Only time will tell if the beer is ruined, but if it ends up ruined, I'd blame the unnecessary transfer and not the autosiphon. That said, you may want to practice on water a couple of times before next brew so you know better what to expect.

 

[passedpawn]

Skip the secondary.

If you have any air gap where tubing meets the autosiphon, it won't work well. Use a worm clamp.

I've used 3 different autosiphons and they have all worked perfectly. Maybe you have a dud.

 

[passedpawn]

Also, if your autosiphon/bung is SO tight in the carboy that no air can enter, the siphon won't work - it'll start pulling a vacuum, and when that vaccum matches the 0.433 psi/inch from the height difference of the beer line, the siphon stops.

Try adding a little hole to that bung. Then test with water.

 

[Kharnynb]

sounds like a bad seal, or maybe some trub got stuck inbetween the inner and the outer pipe causing a bad seal.

Otherwise, want to echo the others here, don't transfer beer unless you have a good reason, and mostly, just let it sit in primary long enough to finish all the way and then a bit more, especially your first few brews when you still try to figure out stuff.

 

[Dabba]

Yeah, I know a lot of people say to skip secondary. I just wanted to clean out the beer a bit and free up my primary for another batch. I just didnt expect such a simple thing to go wrong, especially when i used the siphon fine on brew day.

 

[wysiwyg]

Dabba, can I ask what you're siphoning on brew day? Just curious, because my brew day process doesn't require a siphon. No judging, just curious of your process.

 

[Dabba]

Dabba, can I ask what you're siphoning on brew day? Just curious, because my brew day process doesn't require a siphon. No judging, just curious of your process.

siphon the wort from the pot into the carboy

 

[wysiwyg]

Ah sure, I see. Before I put a ball lock valve on my kettle, I would just dump it into a funnel right into the carboy, debris and all.
Brew on!

 

[flars]

Don't know if you are doing this or not. Don't store the auto siphon assembled. Storing with the racking cane inside the outer tube can deform the seal causing an air leak.

 

[Dabba]

Don't know if you are doing this or not. Don't store the auto siphon assembled. Storing with the racking cane inside the outer tube can deform the seal causing an air leak.

Crap, I need to check mine now. I'm hoping my beer isnt crap still.

 

[oujens]

I'll test it out on water and see what I can make of it next time. I didn't have a problem with it during brew day. I did start in the middle and try not to pick up trub but I was worried about the headspace. Should I check my siphon out or just get a new one? And my bubbling was pretty much stooped on day 13 so i figured I'd do it now. The good thing I guess is the co2 will push the o2 out....

Did I ruined it though?

The bubbles would concern me. A good transfer would not have any bubbling (outside of some co2 release). Oxygen would concern me because yeast won't have enough sugars to consume to effectively scavenge oxygen post fermentation. This assumes your FG was reached after 13 days which it should.

As others say, no secondary is needed. At 2 weeks you should go straight to packaging. Ride it out and see what happens.

 

[eric19312]

That carboy is not full enough for a secondary. If you are going to secondary--and I am fully in camp that it is normally not necessary--but if you do...you need to be going into a secondary where the beer will fill all the way into the neck of the carboy.

If you are working with 5 gallon batch a 6 or 6.5 gallon carboy is fine for primary but you want a 5 gallon carboy to secondary. So what I am seeing is you racked into a 6 gallon carboy to secondary. Would of made more sense to me for you to just leave the batch alone and use the 6 gallon carboy to ferment your new batch.

As for the autosiphon I've had issues with the tightness of the fit of the cane to the hose. If you are transferring fermented beer and you see bubbles forming in the line originating from the point where the line is attached to the cane you are oxygenating the beer and you need to stop what you are doing right away and fix it. Sometimes just pinching the line at the connection helps. I've resorted to a worm clamp but need to be careful not to crush the cane.

 

[Rhaop]

My siphon was leaking air from the rubber on the racking cane and the inside of the outer tube, essentially aerating my finished beer, was frustrating to say the least i searched and found a reddit thread where a guy slid a #3 stopper over the top of the racking cane so once the siphon starts i slide it down to create a seal so preventing air infiltration

Edit: found the link https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewin...ur_autosiphon_leaking_air_use_the_cptmittens/

 

[yowzers]

I've had plenty of leakage issues with autosiphon as well. Any siphon options out there that don't require the work around and DIY fixes?

 

[mattdee1]

I had a brand new autosiphon leak at the hose connection on a recent bottling day and I was so p'ed off I wanted to snap the thing in 2. I'm drinking one of those beers right now though, and it tastes great. I put the whole bottled batch in the fridge after about 6 days of carbonating in hopes of slowing down any staling reactions that might occur due to the oxygen.

I put not one but THREE hose clamps on the autosiphon and on my latest bottling day it worked great.

I'm not terribly worried about the other batch being ruined though... I've intentionally oxygenated the crap out of beers just to educate myself on what that tastes like, and after 2 or so months I was unable to distinguish it from non-oxygenated samples.

 

[flars]

Using tubing that is one-sixteenth less in diameter than the siphon dimension will usually resolve air leaks and the need for a clamp. Never store the auto siphon assembled or for more than a few minutes in Star San solution or PBW for cleaning. Star San solution and PBW will degrade the plastic and the rubber gasket of the racking cane.

 

[Dabba]

The beer looks much better today. I think it's CO2 diffusing out and maybe the end of fermentation (I should have given it a few more days) Even though I pumped the autosiphon I had someone keep the hose in the secondary against the glass so it wouldnt splash much, I was just worried about the action of the pumping.

Also, I tested my out my autosiphon while cleaning it. Definitely user error. I think I sucked up trub. I probably should have cleared it with starsan and tried again but.. live and learn.

Also, another lesson.. I'm going to mark my carboys by gallon so I have an idea of what I have in it. That carboy is 5G BTW, bought specifically for secondary. It was 5G going into the primary. Obviously I lost some somewhere... Not sure how. But next time If I have the carboy marked I will know if it's okay to secondary or not.

The CO2 diffusing or fermentation still happening isnt too bad I guess if its keeping O2 off the beer. It's very very slow so hopefully that means it wasnt oxyenated that much.

I have two more brews to do, both will stay in primary. The only reason I will move to secondary from now on is if I need the primary because its a longer fermenting time or I really really want to clear the beer. This one came out because I wanted it to sit a bit longer.

 

[Kharnynb]

if you have 5 gallons in the kettle at the end of the boil, you'll be lucky to get 4.5 gallons in a secondary or bottles trub and other mess will take up some volume.

 

[Dabba]

if you have 5 gallons in the kettle at the end of the boil, you'll be lucky to get 4.5 gallons in a secondary or bottles trub and other mess will take up some volume.

Am I doing something wrong? I top off to 5 gallons after the boil. Should it be 5.5G?

 

[SlitheryDee]

I believe I had a similar problem with my first autosiphon. Instead of starting the siphon, it seemed to just want to pump air into the beer. That is apparently caused by the rubber gasket around the plunger not forming a proper seal. I bought another one and it has worked fine so far.

 

[Kharnynb]

Am I doing something wrong? I top off to 5 gallons after the boil. Should it be 5.5G?

no, you are making 5 gallons of "raw" beer liquid when brewing. the final product contains 5 gallons of beer + trub.

you will always lose some in the trub, generally atleast 4-5 pints.

 

[Dabba]

no, you are making 5 gallons of "raw" beer liquid when brewing. the final product contains 5 gallons of beer + trub.

you will always lose some in the trub, generally atleast 4-5 pints.

Then how do people secondary in 5G carboys without excessive headspace? I don't plan to do it often, but if I'm planning to.. I'd like to minimize headspace. Any suggestions?

 

[SGTSparty]

I think a lot of people target 5.5 gallons post boil because they know they're going to lose 0.5 gallons to trub, yeast cake etc. and they want a full keg (or in this case carboy). Take a look at some recipies, many are 5.5/11 gallons to deal with this exact thing. great example is BeirMuncher's Centennial Blonde recipe, one of the most popular recipes on HBT, 5.5 and 11 gallon versions.

 

[Dabba]

I think a lot of people target 5.5 gallons post boil because they know they're going to lose 0.5 gallons to trub, yeast cake etc. and they want a full keg (or in this case carboy). Take a look at some recipies, many are 5.5/11 gallons to deal with this exact thing. great example is BeirMuncher's Centennial Blonde recipe, one of the most popular recipes on HBT, 5.5 and 11 gallon versions.

Thanks man. Do I need to adjust my recipes at all if I plan to top off at 5.5G?

 

[SGTSparty]

Up to you, both will work but you'll be diluting so lower ABV etc. If you use Beer Smith just adjust your batch size to 5.5 gallons and it will auto scale. You said you're already topping up, are you doing extract? I'm an AG brewer so I'm not familiar with extract at all so someone else can comment on that but I'd assume if you're using Beer Smith it will still scale.

EDIT: Use the scale function in BS to scale, don't just edit the recipe. Sorry if that was unclear.

 

[flars]

I plan for 5.25 gallons in the fermentor. Two reasons. I want left over beer in the primary to cover the harvested yeast and to have only 48 bottles to fill 2 cases. I don't use a secondary so volume loss with this transfer doesn't figure in.

An extra one-half gallon for a 5 gallon recipe is 9% by volume. This would be your dilution. Would it really be noticeable? Maybe not.

 

[Kharnynb]

if you move from 5 to 5.5 gallon, you can basically just add 10% extra and you don't have to worry too much, scaling only really changes when moving up a lot due to efficiencies etc.

 

[Dabba]

Using brew toad it barely effects FG and IBUs, mostly OG. But the scale option is nice. If I ever plan on secondary I will make use of it. Thank you!

Edit: I'm doing partial mash BIAB for my next brew, but have an extract kit. Will probably continue with partial mash and BIAB complete mash as my equipment allows.