Anyone wish they didn't get BJCP certified?

[TallDan]

I've previously thought that I wouldn't be a great beer judge, or worse, that becoming more analytical about beer would somehow reduce my enjoyment of it. Recently, with some informal judging at homebrew club meetings and helping out at a competition this weekend, I'm rethinking that position.

I've talked to some BJCP certified judges and they've all been pretty positive about the experience and all seemed to encourage others to become judges as well, but of course, these are active judges, so of course they enjoy it.

What I'm wondering is if there is anyone out there who became a BJCP certified judge and decided it just wasn't for them. Maybe you just didn't enjoy tasting the inevitable crappy beers in every competition. Maybe you got tired of tasting dozens of mediocre IPAs. Maybe you found that you just sucked at it or didn't enjoy it as much as you thought.

So, any disgruntled judges? Any former judges that decided it wasn't worth their time? Any other general discouragement?

 

[Yooper]

Even if you do it, and later don't enjoy it anymore, you don't have to judge. There are alot of people who are BJCP members who just don't have the time or inclination to judge any more, and that's ok. They just go "inactive" if they want.

It's a great learning experience. I became a better brewer studying and learning and preparing for my BJCP test. Not only that, I became much better at describing flavors, and knowing the cause of certain flavors in an instant.

 

[TallDan]

Hey, I said that I'm looking for DIScouragement, not encouragement.

 

[masscarriers]

One could argue that after tasting lots of good beers in competitions and from people around you, you could find that your homebrewing skills aren't following fast enough for your taste and end up not liking to homebrew anymore.

 

[TallDan]

One could argue that after tasting lots of good beers in competitions and from people around you, you could find that your homebrewing skills aren't following fast enough for your taste and end up not liking to homebrew anymore.

That doesn't worry me too much. I drink all sorts of phenomenal commercial beer but still delude myself into thinking that my homebrew is great.

 

[Qhrumphf]

One could argue that after tasting lots of good beers in competitions and from people around you, you could find that your homebrewing skills aren't following fast enough for your taste and end up not liking to homebrew anymore.

I've actually kind of had this happen. As I've grown as a judge, and my palate and ability to critically analyze has improved, I've become very much harsher on my own beers. Not that there's anything wrong with them (I like them, and have a good competition record) but I pick them apart more meticulously than before. Of course, I have very high standards and a beer isn't good enough to me until it's a 50 point beer.

Now, it hasn't made me dislike homebrewing, just made me want to up my game. And it's given me the tools to do that, too.

However, it's also made me realize that the quality my beers are consistently on par with the top beers in any flight I judge. And again, if they weren't, it'd give me the tools to help me get there.

There's the occasionally poorly run competition (ok, a lot of poorly run competitions), and there's generally an awful lot of pretty poor homebrew you taste in any given competition (and maybe only a few that really stand out, some flights I may not get a single beer that's beyond "meh"). But you also get some occasional really good beers. And occasionally some really poor ones.

And some that really leave you scratching your head. Last comp I judged a couple weeks ago (other judges may have seen the photos floating around), one of my tables had a bottle with a dead spider in it. Fortunately one of the other judge pairs had the beer, not me. But the entire room of judges went nuts. It's apparently happened before ("bugs" quite literally in the beer) at other comps, but I'd never seen anything like it. Of course I succumbed to my own curiousity and tasted it after the judges finished their sheets (the second bottle, they made the call to refuse to open the spider bottle), and it was....and experience. I'm just glad I didn't have to sample enough to fill out a scoresheet.

And then another comp a while back, got to use the word "fecal" on a scoresheet. Because the beer literally smelled and tasted like sh** (or at least what I assume it would taste like). It was (I think) the lowest score I've personally ever given. But the spider beer was worse.

So I guess that's the big downside. You'll get a lot of beers with major off-flavors. But every once in a while you get one that is truly horrendous and almost or completely unpalatable. And you have an obligation to try and judge it anyway, still fill out a complete scoresheet on what you're tasting, feedback as to what went wrong and how to fix it, and try and find at least SOMETHING positive to say about the beer. Unless you actually think it's not safe to do so (like refusing said spider bottle, or I had one where the bottle neck snapped when opening and we weren't sure if there was broken glass inside the beer as a result, with the comp setup such that we had no second bottle to request and had to disqualify the entry).

 

[wardens355]

I am not a judge, but I think it may be kind of like becoming an expert at grammar or speech. You start to nitpick all the problems in beer, making the general drinking experience a little more focused on technicality rather than simply enjoying the beer. I know some folks that are obsessed with grammar and you give them something to read for content, and they come back with all the technical issues rather than feedback on the overall idea. Same with speech, where someone listens to a speech, can tell you how many times the speakers said 'um', but cannot tell you what the overall point was. They simply get distracted by the technical minutiae.

Again, not a judge, so I may be full of it. But if you want discouragement, consider that.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I've actually kind of had this happen. As I've grown as a judge, and my palate and ability to critically analyze has improved, I've become very much harsher on my own beers. Not that there's anything wrong with them (I like them, and have a good competition record) but I pick them apart more meticulously than before. Of course, I have very high standards and a beer isn't good enough to me until it's a 50 point beer.

Now, it hasn't made me dislike homebrewing, just made me want to up my game. And it's given me the tools to do that, too.

However, it's also made me realize that the quality my beers are consistently on par with the top beers in any flight I judge. And again, if they weren't, it'd give me the tools to help me get there.

There's the occasionally poorly run competition (ok, a lot of poorly run competitions), and there's generally an awful lot of pretty poor homebrew you taste in any given competition (and maybe only a few that really stand out, some flights I may not get a single beer that's beyond "meh"). But you also get some occasional really good beers. And occasionally some really poor ones.

And some that really leave you scratching your head. Last comp I judged a couple weeks ago (other judges may have seen the photos floating around), one of my tables had a bottle with a dead spider in it. Fortunately one of the other judge pairs had the beer, not me. But the entire room of judges went nuts. It's apparently happened before ("bugs" quite literally in the beer) at other comps, but I'd never seen anything like it. Of course I succumbed to my own curiousity and tasted it after the judges finished their sheets (the second bottle, they made the call to refuse to open the spider bottle), and it was....and experience. I'm just glad I didn't have to sample enough to fill out a scoresheet.

And then another comp a while back, got to use the word "fecal" on a scoresheet. Because the beer literally smelled and tasted like sh** (or at least what I assume it would taste like). It was (I think) the lowest score I've personally ever given. But the spider beer was worse.

So I guess that's the big downside. You'll get a lot of beers with major off-flavors. But every once in a while you get one that is truly horrendous and almost or completely unpalatable. And you have an obligation to try and judge it anyway, still fill out a complete scoresheet on what you're tasting, feedback as to what went wrong and how to fix it, and try and find at least SOMETHING positive to say about the beer. Unless you actually think it's not safe to do so (like refusing said spider bottle, or I had one where the bottle neck snapped when opening and we weren't sure if there was broken glass inside the beer as a result, with the comp setup such that we had no second bottle to request and had to disqualify the entry).

This sounds like my experience with homebrew fests/gatherings. I've only been to a couple, but roughly 1/3 have been rather poor beers, 1/5 or so have been good, and the rest was either somewhere between "meh" to a "I guess I could drink this."

I'm considering getting my bjcp learnings on, any particular tips?

 

[sfgoat]

I dont necessarily regret it but I dont do it anymore. It started out ok and when I was in California I always had a good time judging in comps but it became a bit of bother for the few I have volunteered to judge at in the Omaha and surrounding areas. Just a different "culture" almost. In general a lot of the beers I have had here are poor in comparison to what I feel I used to judge and for those comps (I wont mention names) I was encouraged to give my email on the score sheets and I got an awful lot of hate mail afterward. Just seems the ability to take criticism is not as common here. Lets just say it was enough to make me not want to deal with it anymore. When we get around to moving away from here again I might get back into it but for now I just enjoy my own homebrews and I still have a lot of people that want me to try theirs and give feedback.

 

[Brettomomyces]

I dont necessarily regret it but I dont do it anymore. It started out ok and when I was in California I always had a good time judging in comps but it became a bit of bother for the few I have volunteered to judge at in the Omaha and surrounding areas. Just a different "culture" almost. In general a lot of the beers I have had here are poor in comparison to what I feel I used to judge and for those comps (I wont mention names) I was encouraged to give my email on the score sheets and I got an awful lot of hate mail afterward. Just seems the ability to take criticism is not as common here. Lets just say it was enough to make me not want to deal with it anymore. When we get around to moving away from here again I might get back into it but for now I just enjoy my own homebrews and I still have a lot of people that want me to try theirs and give feedback.

I put my email on the top of my sheet also, and if I started getting hate mail that would definitely discourage me from participating more...I've done about a dozen sessions since last October and no angry emails yet.

The homebrew scene is big out here though and there are a lot of great beers coming through.

For me, while I do like judging a lot, sometimes taking up a whole Saturday to judge beer can be hard on my free time, which is short already as it is.

 

[treacheroustexan]

This sounds like my experience with homebrew fests/gatherings. I've only been to a couple, but roughly 1/3 have been rather poor beers, 1/5 or so have been good, and the rest was either somewhere between "meh" to a "I guess I could drink this."

I'm considering getting my bjcp learnings on, any particular tips?

Volunteering to steward at competitions is a great starting point.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

This thread has gotten me interested in getting certified. I am curious though how everyone defines the "meh" beers in the context of competition.

I am assuming you mean "meh" this beer is boring/tastes vaguely like beer. Is this the case where they are just submitting boring beers?

Or is it "meh" this beer *vaguely* matches the submitted style category and has a handful of minor/moderate faults?

I am getting several recipes ready/brewed to submit to competitions and I am battling my instinct to put a personal spin on a beer for my own tastes vs. keeping it within style guidelines without being boring. Getting certified and judging a handful of competitions would probably give me a good idea about my own brewing vs. the community at large, what have those of you that got certified found out about your own brewing after judging a couple competitions?

 

[blizz81]

I dont necessarily regret it but I dont do it anymore. It started out ok and when I was in California I always had a good time judging in comps but it became a bit of bother for the few I have volunteered to judge at in the Omaha and surrounding areas. Just a different "culture" almost. In general a lot of the beers I have had here are poor in comparison to what I feel I used to judge and for those comps (I wont mention names) I was encouraged to give my email on the score sheets and I got an awful lot of hate mail afterward. Just seems the ability to take criticism is not as common here. Lets just say it was enough to make me not want to deal with it anymore. When we get around to moving away from here again I might get back into it but for now I just enjoy my own homebrews and I still have a lot of people that want me to try theirs and give feedback.

If you come to the MW Homebrewers Invitational in November, I'll allow you to slap me based on the quality or lack thereof of my samples.


Though I'll expect a more fierce slap at both ends of the flavor scale, and maybe just a dainty cheek tap for a "meh", so I'm not sure how much I'll learn.