Any thoughts on London ESB vs S-04 for hoppy english bitter?

[bingggo]

I recently did Nottingham vs Windsor in a mid-strength English Bitter with lots of hops and found the hop aromas seemed very muted in the Windsor, compared to the Nottingham which was pretty good.

My next brew will be the same beer but with London ESB or S-04. Any experiences or thoughts on which will bring out hop aroma more?

Second order of priority is a yeast which does not attenuate as much, as I'd like a sweeter result.

This is a pilot for a 500 litre brew.

Cheers,
B

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I can't help you on the hop aroma score, but Fermentis S-O4 attenuates to a far greater degree than does Lallemand's London ESB.

Fermentis S-O4 is known to impart a slight lactic taste that some find offensive.

Per the Lallemand flavor diagrams, London ESB is not quite as fruity/estery as Windsor. Call it a dull version of Windsor. Neither London ESB or Windsor can ferment maltotriose, and that is a primary reason as to why these two yeasts have very low attenuation.

 

[thehaze]

Many commercial breweries use S-04 with good results, so it must work well, although from what I experienced myself and reeading on the Internet, should be fermented pretty low, as it's really explosive and the low temperature would also counteract the lactic acid production, maybe...

Otherwise, you could try Windsor. I use it pretty often and I like it. It's got some esters and ferments really quick, like 48 hours and it's done. But it flocculates poorly ( can be fixed with kettle finnings and cold crashing ) and attenuation is on the low end. I can get 70-73% AA by mashing low and using 5+% sugar. Sugar is a welcome addition to a Bitter, at least for my taste.

Cheers!

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Otherwise, you could try Windsor. I use it pretty often and I like it. It's got some esters and ferments really quick, like 48 hours and it's done. But it flocculates poorly ( can be fixed with kettle finnings and cold crashing ) and attenuation is on the low end. I can get 70-73% AA by mashing low and using 5+% sugar. Sugar is a welcome addition to a Bitter, at least for my taste.

Do you use dextrose (corn sugar) or invert #2 (or something else) as your 5+% sugar addition?

 

[thehaze]

I use plain white sugar ( beet or cane sugar ). You could also easily make an invert syrup, if you want and will surely work well.

 

[Miraculix]

I use Lyles golden Sirup, which is commonly used in the UK by hombrewers instead of invert sirup.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I use Lyles golden Sirup, which is commonly used in the UK by hombrewers instead of invert sirup.

I would use it also, but here in the States it is quite expensive.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

But it flocculates poorly ( can be fixed with kettle finnings and cold crashing ) ...
Cheers!

Question: How do kettle finings help the yeast flocculate?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I would use it also, but here in the States it is quite expensive.

From what I’ve seen it’s not too expensive in UK expat websites, but a lot more expensive in places catering to USians.

 

[Piotrsko]

For USians, or as we call it, 'Muricans, try Karo dark corn syrup over in the mega mart pancake aisle. About $3 a quart. I've had lyles and like karo better