Another is my liquid yeast pack healthy thread

[NeoBrew]

I had originally planned to brew next weekend, but due to life switched at the last minute to brewing today. I picked up a pack of Wyeast 3783 Trappist High Gravity yeast at the LHBS. I've been a little concerned about the yeast quality control at this shop lately. Which makes me a little more paranoid that I probably should be. My last brew used White Labs 001 and took a full 48 hours before the starter took off. (I'm using a stir plate) That yeast was within it's expiration, but about 3+ months old.

This starter, which I sorta needed to perform quickly for me, is now 26 hours in and all I'm getting is a single interrupted row of bubbles around the edge of the flask. I do my starters at just ambient temp. It's currently at 69 degrees F, but may have been a few degrees cooler over night. The pack was dated August 2, 2018. YeastCalc indicated 30% viability, which isn't great.

I'm just starting up the capability to do yeast ranching so I can take control of my yeast quality, but it's not up and running yet.

I think this pack is going to get going. I might need to delay pitching for a day and skip the cold crash step.

Is this something I should expect from 3787? I've used it several times before and don't recall it being quite this slow on the starter. I'm really asking because I'm trying to science out if I need to stop buying yeast from my LHBS and consider ordering it online.

Thanks for any thoughts you might be able to share!

 

[Rob2010SS]

I had originally planned to brew next weekend, but due to life switched at the last minute to brewing today. I picked up a pack of Wyeast 3783 Trappist High Gravity yeast at the LHBS. I've been a little concerned about the yeast quality control at this shop lately. Which makes me a little more paranoid that I probably should be. My last brew used White Labs 001 and took a full 48 hours before the starter took off. (I'm using a stir plate) That yeast was within it's expiration, but about 3+ months old.

This starter, which I sorta needed to perform quickly for me, is now 26 hours in and all I'm getting is a single interrupted row of bubbles around the edge of the flask. I do my starters at just ambient temp. It's currently at 69 degrees F, but may have been a few degrees cooler over night. The pack was dated August 2, 2018. YeastCalc indicated 30% viability, which isn't great.

I'm just starting up the capability to do yeast ranching so I can take control of my yeast quality, but it's not up and running yet.

I think this pack is going to get going. I might need to delay pitching for a day and skip the cold crash step.

Is this something I should expect from 3787? I've used it several times before and don't recall it being quite this slow on the starter. I'm really asking because I'm trying to science out if I need to stop buying yeast from my LHBS and consider ordering it online.

Thanks for any thoughts you might be able to share!

I used this yeast a few months back and loved it. It was not a slow starter for me. It was actually quite fast and aggressive, both in the starter and when i pitched.

How does your lhbs store the yeast? In a fridge I'd imagine...? What makes you question the yeast quality control at this place, the slow starts you're seeing? Maybe they're not getting their shipments fast enough or getting them into the fridge fast enough?

 

[NeoBrew]

How does your lhbs store the yeast? In a fridge I'd imagine...? What makes you question the yeast quality control at this place, the slow starts you're seeing? Maybe they're not getting their shipments fast enough or getting them into the fridge fast enough?

It's in a fridge. I've had 4 packs of yeast over the last year not meet my expectations. I've been brewing slower than usual this year, I've probably bought 6 packs of yeast in that time. One was past expiration, which I didn't notice until I got home. It eventually worked, but was a very slow starter. The problems I've had have put my guard up, and I may be biased in my expectations for how it should be behaving.

I had not had these kinds of problems in the past with yeast from them or other LHBSs. I'm also a little dubious on their pellet hops. The 1oz packages are all packaged up in the store. I assume they are buying larger quantities and breaking it down to save a few dollars. It is not uncommon to have the pellets be broken apart and a little mushy when I go to use them. I don't believe they are packaging them with nitrogen or anything. They keep them frozen in the store and I keep them frozen at home until I use them.

I've spoken with the owner about quality control once or twice. He seems a little concerned, but I've not been pushy enough to ask if he has done anything about it. One of the salespeople gave me a free oz of hops when I raised my concern about the hops on my last batch. I'll definitely have another talk with them after this yeast experience.

 

[NeoBrew]

I don't know. This is a shot of the starter at 28 hours. I might have to run to the other LHBS to pick up a couple of other smack packs. Not sure I have the nerve to take a chance with another batch.

I've not been to Northern Brewer since they were purchased by AbInbev. I'm not faced with many good options. Go for it or sell my soul!

 

[Rob2010SS]

Yeah after 24 hours i usually have a layer of foam on my starters. That one is definitely delayed. Im sure it will still take off but I'm wondering if you're going to take a hit on your projected cell count with that... if you don't have krausen by 48 hours, i would probably get another smack pack. But that's because im impatient lol.

As far as hops, my lhbs does the same thing - buy in bulk and package them in their own little baggies. The one oz bags are small enough where one oz fills them to the brim. Ive never had an issue with their hops though

 

[kh54s10]

I have had a lot of starters that never made more bubbling than that. But the color would be a lot more milky. I think it is working but very slowly and may need another "feeding" of wort. Or resort to another pack of yeast. If this is common I would complain to the LHBS and if you don't get something reassuring from them I would shop elsewhere.

 

[jcav]

Sorry to hear your LHBS has outdated yeast. They may not have handled it correctly temperature wise either, since you should have some viability and see some yeast action in the starter, but yet there is none. I just recently ordered 2 smack packs of the Wyeast 3787 (Belgian Trappist High Gravity) yeast. I make large starters for an 11 gallon batch. My yeast and grain arrived in three days (I order on Sunday night and I have it at my door on Wednesday), as always. The date on the smack packs is 10/15/18 and they always turn over their yeast and do not send yeast more than three months old (most of the time I get yeast dated 1 to 1 1/2 months old). I am brewing a nice Belgian Ale this month and will make a starter and I can recommend MoreBeer for quality, good selection, and fast shipping. Something to think about if you want to try another option and are loosing faith in you local place.

Good Luck,

John

 

[MaxStout]

I don't know. This is a shot of the starter at 28 hours. I might have to run to the other LHBS to pick up a couple of other smack packs. Not sure I have the nerve to take a chance with another batch.

I've not been to Northern Brewer since they were purchased by AbInbev. I'm not faced with many good options. Go for it or sell my soul!

If your LHBS is Brew & Grow (my LHBS, too), give the owner (Kevin) a call. I was in there a few days ago to get supplies and he said they have been having some supply chain problems with Wyeast recently. Not sure if it's related to your issue. But in any case, Kevin's a good guy and I'll bet he will help you out if you give him a heads-up.

 

[NeoBrew]

The starter is still looking anemic. There is now a small dot of foam at the center of the whirlpool. We are now at about 36 hours.

I broke down and picked up two new smack packs at Midwest Supplies (Sister store to Northern Brewer) One was one month old, one was two months old. The fresher one started to inflate within 2 hours, the 2 month old one is just starting to puff up now about 4 hours after I smacked it. I'm going to direct pitch those two later tonight.

I'll keep the starter going for a day or so just to see what it does.

MaxStout, it is B&G. I've talked with Kevin a couple times about expired yeast. I'll follow up with him again. I would much rather support them and have a local place to go for ingredients. I'm hopeful what I've experienced is an anomaly and they can get their supply chain worked out.

jcav, I was actually going to give MoreBeer a try for this batch, but because I brewed a week early it didn't work out. I've never mail ordered liquid yeast. I'm a little worried about having it arrive in good shape. I'll probably try them on my next batch, so we will see.

 

[jcav]

I have been using MoreBeer and ordering liquid yeast from them for about two years now. I order once a month and with twenty something orders I have never had a problem with their Wyeast liquid yeast. I have ordered from other places over the years and I must be lucky as I have never had any issues with liquid yeast from other places either. Give it a shot. They have a store in California and a store in Pennsylvania. They will ship from the location closest to you. They ship from the Pennsylvania location to my house is Florida and like I said, I get my order in three days.

John

 

[corbmonster]

I used a yeast with 30% viability once. Just like you, it didn't show much activity on the first go. It took me doing a 3 step starter to get it to adequate pitching levels. To make sure your yeast is viable, why don't you cold crash your starter and do a gravity reading on your starter wort?

 

[NeoBrew]

I can do a gravity reading on it when it's done. It's just not going in my beer anymore.

As of this morning (about 42 hours in) there is a thin white krausen forming. I took a whiff off the top of the flask, it doesn't seem to have the kind of phenolics I would expect from this yeast, but my nose may not be at 100% this morning.

I'll let it ferment out and then do some assessment just for the heck of it.

 

[MaxStout]

The starter is still looking anemic. There is now a small dot of foam at the center of the whirlpool. We are now at about 36 hours.

I broke down and picked up two new smack packs at Midwest Supplies (Sister store to Northern Brewer) One was one month old, one was two months old. The fresher one started to inflate within 2 hours, the 2 month old one is just starting to puff up now about 4 hours after I smacked it. I'm going to direct pitch those two later tonight.

I'll keep the starter going for a day or so just to see what it does.

MaxStout, it is B&G. I've talked with Kevin a couple times about expired yeast. I'll follow up with him again. I would much rather support them and have a local place to go for ingredients. I'm hopeful what I've experienced is an anomaly and they can get their supply chain worked out.

jcav, I was actually going to give MoreBeer a try for this batch, but because I brewed a week early it didn't work out. I've never mail ordered liquid yeast. I'm a little worried about having it arrive in good shape. I'll probably try them on my next batch, so we will see.

Here's another little hack for next brew. If you know in advance when you plan to brew call Kevin at B&G and ask about the strain(s) you want, he'll add it to his weekly order. IIRC, he gets shipments from Wyeast every week. When it comes in, you can pick up a pack that is only a week or two old. The Kolsch I picked up last week was dated late Oct.

 

[NeoBrew]

The starter did eventually take off. There was a good measure of yeast by the time it finished. It was +/-4 days after I started it. I had already moved on and bought two new packs and used them in my beer.

The final gravity of the starter was 1.005. The aroma and taste of it was good. It may very well have worked in my beer. We will never know.