Another first AG brew......looking for feedback.

[tuskenraider]

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.50 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.50 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.0 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.066 SG
Estimated Color: 8.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 78.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.3 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6.50 gal Chicago, IL Water 1 -
12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 85.7 %
1 lbs Caramel Malt - 40L (Briess) (40.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.1 %
1.00 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 17.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 3.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 6.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 Yeast 10 -
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 7 -
2.00 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Warrior [16.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 51.0 IBUs
1 lbs Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 4 7.1 %


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 14 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 18.20 qt of water at 165.8 F 154.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Drain mash tun, Batch sparge with 1 steps (4.13gal) of 168.0 F water.


So I'm using the yellow 10 gal. Igloo cooler with false bottom. I got a pre-boil gravity of 1.052 and post boil of 1.058, so basically aweful efficiency apparently. My mash temp was 1 degree higher at 155 and measured the same at the end. I got 2.5 gal. from the first runnings and 4 from the 176 degree batch sparge. Maybe this changes with AG, but with my extract brews I started with 6.5 gal. of water and would end up with about 5.5 gal after the boil. Leaving the trub behind, I would have 5 gal. in the fermenter. With this batch I measured .75 gallons of trub and had 5 gal. in the fermenter, so kinda close. When calculating a batch size with software, and using the above recipe, what volume is really my batch size to get the proper target numbers? I figure if there is 5.75 gal. in the brew kettle at the end of the boil, that's really the batch volume, not the 5.5 I predicted. Since I plugged in 5.5 gal. the numbers were higher all around, so plugging in 5.75 for the batch lowered the expected OG gravity to 1.063, but still down 5 points. I guess I've never been quite sure, thoughts?

I wonder if I should have stirred the sparged grains during the 10 min. rest and that would have freed up more sugars, as that's about the only thing I can think of.

 

[duboman]

The batch size is the actual volume in the primary after cooled and before pitched, everything else calculates out for your final bottle/keg volume

As for your gravity it sounds like a calibration issue or taking readings improperly. You need to be sure the wort you are reading is cooled below 80F to be accurate

As for the mash I will generally stir twice during a 60 minute mash, you also need to verify your thermometer is calibrated and accurate and that you have a good crush and good ph, not too high. All these items come into play for efficiency

 

[tuskenraider]

Thanks for the response. The batch size thing still confuses me and maybe I should start a seperate thread, but the .75 gal. of wort/trub that got left behind is/was volume in the boil. The volume of water at the end of the boil combined with the amount of grain sugars and hops added is what effects your OG, IBU's, etc., no? Say istead, I left 1.5 gal of wort/trub in the kettle, and put 4.25 gal in the fermenter, how is using 4.25 gal as my batch size reflecting the sugars and hops which were abosrbed in the 5.75 gal.? Using 4.25 gal. would raise all the values signifigantly and would seem wrong.

I cooled my sample for testing gravity to 65 degrees and actually tested with two samples, so I'm confident about the OG reading. I had also verified my guage thermometer was reading exactly what my mercury thermometer was reading with the strike water. I took a temp in three spots before closing the mash tun lid. I did not stir my mash once I closed the lid and maybe that wold have helped. I tried to keep this first time simple though as is recommended most often, but I wanted to do a mash out and/or double sparge. Next time. Live and learn.

 

[duboman]

For example: I use a typical 10 gallon set up, kettle and tun. I use a 6.25 gallon batch size in Beer Smith equipment profile. So.......

My boil volume is 8.97 gallons
Boil time is set to 60 minutes
Boil off is 1.5 gallons/hour
Post boil volume is 7.47 gallons
Shrinkage is 3%
Loss to trub/chiller is 1 gallon which leaves my batch batch size at 6.25 gallons
I lose 1/2 gallon to fermentation-trub/spent yeast, etc.
So bottling volume is 5.75 gallons

This will vary sometimes depending upon the type and amount of hops used. For example in my IPAs which will typically use 4-6 oz of whole hops I will up things abit to account for the wort absorbed by the hops, less hoppy beers will be more accurate.

What I did is made a calibrated brew stick marked off in gallons and halves and use this at all points of my process to get an accurate read on all volumes for different types of beer and ingredients, keep good notes and make the necessary volume adjustments per recipe based upon those notes. As long as you have good numbers plugged in to your profile the OG, IBUs, etc will calculate properly give or take a point or two

 

[wilserbrewer]

I wonder if I should have stirred the sparged grains during the 10 min. rest and that would have freed up more sugars, as that's about the only thing I can think of.

Yes, stirring is key w/ batch sparging to free up the sugar and rinse the grain. I believe efficiency is calculated based upon all wort generated, "brewhouse efficiency" considers losses due to trub and transfers, etc.

 

[brettwasbtd]

My batch size is for the volume of wort that will be in the kettle after the boil and chilling my wort. I assume my recipes to finish with 6 gallons in the kettle. I then whirlpool, cover my kettle and let all the cold break and hops settle out. I then siphon off anywhere from 5-5.5 gallons into my fermenter. For calculating efficiency of sugar extraction you need to look at all the sugar that is in your kettle. If I were to shoot for 1.050 in the fermenter, it would be 1.050 in the kettle no matter what the volume is. I could have 8 gallons in the kettle but only put 5 in the fermenter, that doesn't change the gravity

Like mentioned above, you do need to stir. At the end of my mash I stir up the grain, let it settle and then vorlauf and collect first runnings. I then close my valve, add the sparge water and stir. Then repeat.

Did you account for the water absorbed by the grain? Consistency is the key with all grain, efficiency is just a number and a difference in a dollar or two

 

[lemmiwinks]

Sparge: Drain mash tun, Batch sparge with 1 steps (4.13gal) of 168.0 F water.

This may have been one of the causes for low efficiency. Probably want the sparge water closer to 190° - 200° to raise the grain bed to around 170°.

 

[tuskenraider]

My batch size is for the volume of wort that will be in the kettle after the boil and chilling my wort. That is what makes sense to me, but others still insist it's what goes in the fermenter(?).

Did you account for the water absorbed by the grain? Consistency is the key with all grain, efficiency is just a number and a difference in a dollar or two

Yes, I'd say so since I used the volumes Beer Smith recommended. My absorbtion rate seemed to be the typical .20 gal per .lb of grain I've read about. As mentioned previously, I collected 2 gal. of first runnings with 4.5 gal of strike water.

This may have been one of the causes for low efficiency. Probably want the sparge water closer to 190° - 200° to raise the grain bed to around 170°.

This is another area that caused confusion as I've read and viewed other people's processes and noted that, but then you use the software and it gives you a much lower recommendation. Why does such a popular software make this perceived mistake? I did fail to take a grain bed temp after letting the sparge sit for 10 min. Another thing for me to improve upon next batch. Thanks.

 

[brettwasbtd]

Guess its still up for debate on the Efficiency thing!

 

[skydvr74]

There are a couple of factors here. Based on your pre-boil of 52 ppg your 58 ppg value is correct for a post boil of 5.75 gal. If you had boiled a little harder and achieved a post boil volume of 5.50 gal then your ppg would have been 61, which isn't far off.

Also see this article on batch sparging. It says to maximize your efficiency do two equal size batch sparges.

So next time boil a little harder and do two batch sparges and you will be all good.

 

[lemmiwinks]

Yes, I'd say so since I used the volumes Beer Smith recommended. My absorbtion rate seemed to be the typical .20 gal per .lb of grain I've read about. As mentioned previously, I collected 2 gal. of first runnings with 4.5 gal of strike water.

This is another area that caused confusion as I've read and viewed other people's processes and noted that, but then you use the software and it gives you a much lower recommendation. Why does such a popular software make this perceived mistake? I did fail to take a grain bed temp after letting the sparge sit for 10 min. Another thing for me to improve upon next batch. Thanks.

I use iBrewmaster and it gives me the wrong target temp for sparge water as well. iBrewmaster however doesn't account for a batch sparge and I attributed the incorrect temp to that. I just shoot for 190-200 and have been right around 70% for both ny AG brews thus far.

 

[JeffD76]

I had been having problems with efficiency as well in my first few AG batches. This last one I took about twice as long to batch sparge as I was doing before. I sparged in two batches. Added sparge water, stirred, and then let the grain sit for ten minutes before draining the sparge water slowly. Also did a longer, more vigorous boil. Hit all of my numbers right on the nose.