Another bitter and sour beer, not in a good way

[Dland]

So I just did a trub dump on the brew I made last Sunday, and it tastes bad sour again. At one point thought it was acetaldahyde, but since it did not get better when I got let prior batches work out, figured infected plate cooler or something. I just dumped my last three batches as they were undrinkable, cleaned the heck out of everything, multiple times, PBW/Starsan take apart, soak, pump out and repeat. Now I'm getting this bad taste again, does not look infected, just tastes bad. Still working at around 1.025.

New pack of 05 each batch, current beer is working at 71F in 68F cellar, so I doubt heat is a problem.

Anything else it could be? Am a somewhat experienced brewer, but at am a loss.

 

[Dland]

OK, the only thing I can assume is an infection, despite thorough wash and sanitation. I did not bake or boil the plate cooler, which seems the only possible reservoir of nastiness.

If I bake or boil it, is there any critter that can survive that?, Anyway to ID the offending organism?

Immersion coil on the way, but it looks like it won't be here in time for this weekend, and I am not liking this store bought beer, but tempted to wait for coil at this point.

 

[LKABrewer]

Are you removing chlorine from your water?

 

[Dland]

No Cl, on a well, same water for last 40 batches.

 

[aprichman]

I would bake that sucker for an hour at 300°F. Nothing (on this planet) can survive that.

 

[aprichman]

Also have you changed all your hoses? Anything that isn't metal should be replaced.

 

[Dland]

Just ordered new tubing, even though I don't see how anything could have lived though the hot chemicals I've pumped though them.

Still like to know nature of offending critter. Just took some more off active ferment, krausen & foam look normal, mostly smells like beer, but slightly sour, but not vinegar.

 

[Dland]

So I just did trub dump and tasted last weekend's batch, same bad taste, but not quite as strong. Tastes almost metallic to me now. I had not received new immersion cooler, but did bake the plate cooler and boil the hoses, valves and fittings, after disassembly.

Checked my notes and I see the problem started on same batch I went from gas HLT to an electric element in keggle. Not just any keggle though, one I had experimented on using brazing as method for fastening though hulls. Seems crazy enough could be coming off those joints to affect flavor, but I do brew with fairly low pH water.

Will use another kettle next week, but anyone experience anything like this?

 

[Staticsouls]

That's a bummer, I hope you get it figured out.

 

[seatazzz]

I do see that you are 40+ batches in, but what temperature do you ferment at? That could be a factor, just sayin.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I have read of more than one person that has gotten bugs from the outlet of their boil kettle. They assume that its good because it’s the boil kettle, but the fittings stay cool enough to harbor bacteria.

 

[divrack]

I had one batch go super super sour by the time primary has finished with a tonne of hops in it...
Tasted like lactic but no idea what demon mutant caused it.
Also have a recurring aerobic critter that resists all boiling and chemicals seemingly, but fortunately only grows in air.

 

[Dland]

Thanks for the replies. I will not rule out anything at this point. Still have that nasty after taste from trying latest brew yesterday after trub dump(I tried it two small sips, in disbelief and horror). Whatever it is, really messes with my taste buds, making them over sensitive to sour and especially bitter flavors (drank fairly low IBU craft beer last night).

I doubt fermentation temp could be an issue, thought it might be on the first batch, which hit 75.4F, but the others were at 72.7 max(wort temp, cellar temp 68-69), have made good beer at that temp with 05 before.

I'll take apart the BK valve, but doubt that could be it because two batches were boiled with gas on a cajun cooker, have to watch out not to melt sight glass w that thing, the fittings get hot. But am all electric now, so point taken, still, hot wort leaves kettle at around 200 when using plate cooler. With immersion chiller, it will be going though valve cool.

I was wondering about and dreading some unkillable bug, have been very thorough with sanitation and cleaning (can't really sanitize dirty), new chiller should eliminate any secret critter hang outs, hopefully.

 

[divrack]

That's really strange that you still tasting it! Sounds maybe more like some weird chemical thing.

 

[tooblue02]

I recently took apart my ball valve and was amazed at what can get in there. Not sure what style you have but if you can fully disassemble it and scrub the gunk out it might be a source.

 

[Dland]

That's really strange that you still tasting it! Sounds maybe more like some weird chemical thing.

That is what I am beginning to think, hence the doubts on the brazed kettle. Anyone know if/where beer can be tested for metals? i should get a water test too, but that is more of a constant, as have been on same fairly deep well for decades.

This taste or burn out of taste still lingers at end of tongue. Reminds me of some bad water I had in past, can't remember exactly where, but it might have been form old tank, or pipes that had been sitting for years.

 

[Dland]

I recently took apart my ball valve and was amazed at what can get in there. Not sure what style you have but if you can fully disassemble it and scrub the gunk out it might be a source.

The ball valve on BK was pretty dirty, even though I think it gets hot enough to be sterile, it was worth cleaning.

On the metals note, I ground & polished most of the heat discoloration from the inside of kettles. The one I brazed got pretty hot, and the welded ones had a little bit too. Reading on line, I see over heated stainless can give off cadmium and nickle. Hard to see how it could have affected all that much water (probably 100 gallons heated in it since modified), but you never know.

Wouldn't a caustic/acid (PBW/Starsan) cycle remove any stray surface metals after polishing?

 

[Dland]

Apparently, I should have "pickled" any stainless surfaces I scorched after grinding clean. That HLT had a very strong metallic smell. I don't have any nitric acid kicking around, but hit it with some phosphoric acid containing auto body shop stuff I have and the metallic smell is gone.

With all the cleaning, new cooler and metal treatment, I may never know source of problem. Of course I wont know if I've solved it until next week anyway.