America, F**K yeah!

[HoppyDaze]

May your beers be slippery and fireworks true

Let's celebrate!

 

[Zul'jin]

F**K yeah!

 

[JakeTheHopDog]

Hell yes, brother!

 

[jiggs_casey]

F**K yeah!

**** Yeah!!!

 

[Beernik]

Saw a great poll tonight. 26% of Americans don't know who we declared independence from.

What a country.

Looking forward to having both sides of the family over for homebrew, BBQ, model rockets, kites, and fireworks.

 

[homebrewer_99]

And the others believe we got independence on July 4th...idiots!!!

The Treaty of Paris officially ended the Revolutionary War and was signed on September 3, 1783. I think that date is our country's REAL birthday.

Other "lost history" (i.e., not taught in schools) is that we had "Continental Congress Presidents" before George Washington became the first President of the United States. Some people think GW became our president on July 4, 1776.

Their office was created by the articles of confederation rather then the Constitution of the United States.

They were:

1. Peyton Randolph
2. Henry Middleton
3. Peyton Randolph
4. John Hancock
5. Henry Laurens
6. John Jay
7. Samuel Huntington
8. Thomas McKean (I lived on Mc Kean St. in So. Philly...)
9. John Hanson
10. Elias Boudinot
11. Thomas Mifflin (I lived on Mifflin St. in So. Philly...)
12. Richard Henry Lee
13. John Hancock[g]
14. Nathaniel Gorham
15. Arthur St. Clair
16. Cyrus Griffin

 

[Beerrific]

And the others believe we got independence on July 4th...idiots!!!

The Declaration of Independence was approved on July 4th 1776. As far as I am concerned that is the day American become an independent county. The subsequent squabble was to remove the occupying forces.

 

[homebrewer_99]

The Declaration of Independence was approved on July 4th 1776. As far as I am concerned that is the day American become an independent county. The subsequent squabble was to remove the occupying forces.

I don't agree. Just because you say it's so, doesn't make it so... The US does not formally recognize a country until a treaty is signed. Why are we any different?

Even the date is in dispute...from Wiki:

"Although the wording of the Declaration was approved on July 4, the date of its signing has been disputed. Most historians have concluded that it was signed nearly a month after its adoption, on August 2, 1776, and not on July 4 as is commonly believed."

Some people don't know the Korean War is still going on...

Some history is just another's point of view and interpretation...like Custer's Last Stand. The history books say there were no survivors. That's not true. There were over 9,000 Native Americans who survived it.

 

[azscoob]

I am brewing right now, tomorrow its out by the pool, relaxing, and doing some grilling with good friends. I am close enough to see the town fireworks from the pool as well!

On an odd coincidence, the beer I am brewing has red wheat, white wheat, and blueberries. never dawned on me til now, but I hope its flagging good!

God bless America!

 

[arturo7]

The Declaration of Independence was approved on July 4th 1776. As far as I am concerned that is the day American become an independent county. The subsequent squabble was to remove the occupying forces.

I agree with this. I think it's quite appropriate that we choose the day that we gave England the big FU as the day our nation was born.

 

[ErieShores]

Maybe we should celebrate on Sept 3rd instead.Always has to be that guy that wants to re-write the history books.

 

[Beerrific]

I don't agree. Just because you say it's so, doesn't make it so...

Yes it does. The winners wright the history.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Maybe we should celebrate on Sept 3rd instead.Always has to be that guy that wants to re-write the history books.

History books should be re-written to reflect the truth. If there are different points of view then both should be written.

For instance, our history books say our Founding Father's were patriots when in truth they were people who conducted terroristic acts (i.e., Boston Tea Party, Washington attacking the Hessians at Trenton, etc.) who overthrew their Goverment (for whatever reason). You see, it's point of view.

These are similar types of actions our Government suppresses.

In the end if you learn (something) wrong you teach (something) wrong.

How many times has it already been proven that Columbus did not discover America, but we still celebrate it?

 

[homebrewer_99]

Maybe we should celebrate on Sept 3rd instead.Always has to be that guy that wants to re-write the history books.

Yes, they should be re-written. Why would anyone want to learn a bunch of "facts" that are indeed not fact?

Try thinking of it this way...July 4, 1776 is our "conception day" and Sept 3, 1983 as the day we were born.

If our birthday is truly July 4, 1776 then we had 16 presidents before GW...regardless if it were as the Continental Congress President or the US President...they were Presidents.

If our real birthday is Sept 3, 1783 then GW was our first president.


You don't have to agree with me. I am just trying to get you to see the logic of it (history or the truth...).

 

[passedpawn]

Some people argue so much they fail to see the forest for the trees.

It's not the actual date that is significant, but that that it happened. It happened, and we celebrate it, and the celebration would not change even if the date did.

So stop being argumentative. Pick up a flag in your left hand, your homebrew in your right hand, and your flute in the other hand and march down Main Street and show your colors.

 

[ronaldo_fanbelt]

Let us celebrate our country's freedom by blowing up a small part of it!

 

[Beerrific]

History books should be re-written to reflect the truth.

History books say that on July 4th, 1776 the Declaration of Independence was approved. And that 7-4 is celebrated as Independence Day. What needs to be re-written?

 

[harrydrez]

 

[homebrewer_99]

History books say that on July 4th, 1776 the Declaration of Independence was approved. And that 7-4 is celebrated as Independence Day. What needs to be re-written?

That it's the country's birthday...

Just remember...sometime long ago "the earth was flat"...OK, some people still believe so...

Have a good 4th...EVERYONE!!!

 

[pernox]

Yes, they should be re-written. Why would anyone want to learn a bunch of "facts" that are indeed not fact?

But they are.

Try thinking of it this way...July 4, 1776 is our "conception day" and Sept 3, 1983 as the day we were born.

Actually, whether you want to piss around about when the Declaration was signed and ratified, it was read aloud, dated, and agreed upon on 7/4. Therefore, the US, being the eventual victors of the war between citizens and occupying England, was correct in declaring themselves a sovereign nation. If I'm born on 1/1 and don't get my birth certificate and SSC until 1/10... Was I born on 1/10?

If our birthday is truly July 4, 1776 then we had 16 presidents before GW...regardless if it were as the Continental Congress President or the US President...they were Presidents.

They presided over the Continental Congress. They were not titled "President of the United States of America." Therefore, the United States of America did not have a President until it appointed General Washington to be so.

For instance, our history books say our Founding Father's were patriots when in truth they were people who conducted terroristic acts (i.e., Boston Tea Party, Washington attacking the Hessians at Trenton, etc.) who overthrew their Goverment (for whatever reason). You see, it's point of view.

They WERE Patriots. The "terrorism" they conducted was done in the name of rustling up the citizenry into action (and it worked.. for a whopping 3% of the population) against the oppression of their ruling country, and to rustle up the ruling body into an actual shooting war rather than allowing them to continue the death of a thousand cuts that they were inflicting upon their colonies. Patriot, as defined by the dictionary: –noun
devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty. I think it's safe to say that this is an apt description of the agitators' motivation.

-edit- And in keeping with the topic of the thread: Happy Birthday, America! F*** yeah indeed.

 

[homebrewer_99]

If I'm born on 1/1 and don't get my birth certificate and SSC until 1/10... Was I born on 1/10?

No, and you weren't conceived 8 years previously either...

I didn't state that the Continental Congress Presidents were the President of the United States...you're not paying attention...

Since you stated that GW was the first President of the United States...it wouldn't have been until AFTER the "United States" was recognized as a nation until after the treaty was signed on Sep 3, 1783...

The point is almost everyone (rather conveniently) forgets the period of 1776 to 1783. They automatically jump from 4 July 1776 to GW is President. Apparently the Continental Congress means nothing. If we were an independent country who, but a president was in charge? Not GW.


This kind of sums up a lot of what's happening today also...

They WERE Patriots (not in the mind of the present Government). The "terrorism" they conducted was done in the name of rustling up the citizenry into action (and it worked.. for a whopping 3% of the population) against the oppression of their ruling country, and to rustle up the ruling body into an actual shooting war rather than allowing them to continue the death of a thousand cuts that they were inflicting upon their colonies. Patriot, as defined by the dictionary: –noun devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty. I think it's safe to say that this is an apt description of the agitators' motivation.

 

[pernox]

No, and you weren't conceived 8 years previously either...

I didn't state that the Continental Congress Presidents were the President of the United States...you're not paying attention...

I am paying attention very well - you're being obtuse. The implication is clear when you say this. If our birthday is truly July 4, 1776 then we had 16 presidents before GW...regardless if it were as the Continental Congress President or the US President...they were Presidents. "We" did not have 16 presidents. They presided over the CC, not the country. The "country" (actually a colonial property of England) was ruled by the Crown.

Since you stated that GW was the first President of the United States...it wouldn't have been until AFTER the "United States" was recognized as a nation until after the treaty was signed on Sep 3, 1783...

Here's a timeline to clarify.
July 4, 1776: Continental Congress agrees that the Declaration of Independence is binding. Throws up bird to tyranny. Couple days later, weeks later, whatever irrelevant number of days between 2-30, the document is signed. The United States of America are officially born, and the status of "colony" is forever removed.
September 3, 1783: Treaty of Paris signed. Damn English pukes agree that we did in fact whip up on them. United States are recognized as a country by the rest of the free world.
April 30, 1789: General Washington takes the oath of office, becoming the first President of the United States.

The point is almost everyone (rather conveniently) forgets the period of 1776 to 1783. They automatically jump from 4 July 1776 to GW is President. Apparently the Continental Congress means nothing. If we were an independent country who, but a president was in charge? Not GW.

I don't think a whole lot of people forget that a big freakin' war was taking place during that period of time, but I agree that the common misconception that General Washington assumed the presidency immediately upon the RR of the DI is there, and the public school system does little to enumerate on the situation during the formative years.

This kind of sums up a lot of what's happening today also...

I wish I could agree. If there were more men with the sack to stand up for their rights in this country, we wouldn't be in a tenth of the crap we are right now. Folks today could learn a lot from those who were willing to forgo their temporary security for a stake in the Great Experiment. Going further than that is going to lead to a seriously politically-heavy discussion though, so perhaps we would be best to move to PM.

They WERE Patriots (not in the mind of the present Government). The "terrorism" they conducted was done in the name of rustling up the citizenry into action (and it worked.. for a whopping 3% of the population) against the oppression of their ruling country, and to rustle up the ruling body into an actual shooting war rather than allowing them to continue the death of a thousand cuts that they were inflicting upon their colonies. Patriot, as defined by the dictionary: –noun devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty. I think it's safe to say that this is an apt description of the agitators' motivation.

 

[homebrewer_99]

"We" did not have 16 presidents. They presided over the CC, not the country. The "country" (actually a colonial property of England) was ruled by the Crown.

Here's a timeline to clarify.
July 4, 1776: Continental Congress agrees that the Declaration of Independence is binding. Throws up bird to tyranny. Couple days later, weeks later, whatever irrelevant number of days between 2-30, the document is signed. The United States of America are officially born, and the status of "colony" is forever removed. I do not agreee with that statement...
September 3, 1783: Treaty of Paris signed. Damn English pukes agree that we did in fact whip up on them. United States are recognized as a country by the rest of the free world. I agree with you...
April 30, 1789: General Washington takes the oath of office, becoming the first President of the United States. I agree with you...first President of the United States.

I don't think a whole lot of people forget that a big freakin' war was taking place during that period of time, but I agree that the common misconception that General Washington assumed the presidency immediately upon the RR of the DI is there, and the public school system does little to enumerate on the situation during the formative years. I agree with you...

I wish I could agree. If there were more men with the sack to stand up for their rights in this country, we wouldn't be in a tenth of the crap we are right now. Folks today could learn a lot from those who were willing to forgo their temporary security for a stake in the Great Experiment. Going further than that is going to lead to a seriously politically-heavy discussion though, so perhaps we would be best to move to PM. They do periodically, but it's like a mouse trying to stop a stampede. They are labeled the adverse word of the day and don't get any media play, etc.

One person can't turn Congress or BIG BIZ. IMO, EVERY politician is bought and paid for. There NEVER was an honest one.

I can agree with you on some of those points...

September 3, 1783: Treaty of Paris signed....United States are recognized as a country by the rest of the free world. This is my point here...the US does not recognize other countries as sovereign nations until after a treaty is signed. Why do we use this as a measurement against others but not apply it to ourselves. Hypocritical isn't it? We can't have it both ways.

April 30, 1789: General Washington takes the oath of office, becoming the first President of the United States. I agree.

"We" did not have 16 presidents. They presided over the CC, not the country.
Exactly who are "we" under, the Continental Congress or as in US?:

If you look at the timeline below you will see:

1. The first CC met in Sept 1774
2. The DOI signed in Aug 1776 (which you cite as "we" were no longer under the CC and became the US, right?)
3. July 2: New Hampshire became the ninth state to ratify the US Constitution, thereby allowing for the creation of the new government.
4. On Oct 10, 1788, a FULL 12 years after the DOI is signed, the last Continental Congress meets that has a full quorum
5. Five months later in Mar 1789 the last CC session is "recorded".

It looks to me like the Continental Congress was in session, on and off, for almost 13 years that "we" were the United States. How were these guys not our first presidents if "we" became the United States on July 4, 1776?


Here's the timeline I used (it's in Wiki...):



1774:

• September 5: First Continental Congress convened at Philadelphia’s Carpenter's Hall.

1775

• April 19: War began at the Battles of Lexington and Concord
• May 10: Second Continental Congress convened at Philadelphia’s State House.
• June 14: Congress established the Continental Army
• June 15: Congress appointed one of its members, George Washington, as commander of the Continental Army
• July 6: Declaration of the Causes and Necessity of Taking Up Arms approved
• October 13: Congress established the Continental Navy

1776

• July 2: Resolution of independence adopted, asserting the independence of the colonies from Britain
• July 4: Final text of the United States Declaration of Independence approved
• August 2: Declaration of Independence signed in Congress

1777

• November 15: Congress issues the Articles of Confederation to the states for approval

1781

• March 1: Articles of Confederation go into effect, Congress becomes the Congress of the Confederation.

1787

• September 17: Philadelphia Convention adjourns after writing the United States Constitution

1788

• July 2: New Hampshire became the ninth state to ratify the US Constitution, thereby allowing for the creation of the new government.
• July 8: Continental Congress puts the new Constitution into effect by announcing the dates for the elections and the assembly of the new Congress.
• October 10: The last session during which the Continental Congress succeeded in achieving a quorum.

1789

• March 2: Last session of the Continental Congress at Fraunces Tavern is adjourned sine die. Philip Pell of New York was the sole member in attendance.
• March 4: : First session of the 1st United States Congress begins at Federal Hall.
• April 30: George Washington inaugurated as first President of the United States.

Thanks for keeping it civil and informative. Cheers!!

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

F**ck it. 4th of July again.....Doesn't matter that I have a 10 foot tall chainsaw carving of a bald eagle in my yard, I won't be able to go out because everyone will chase me down the street again with pitch forks and muskets.

 

[homebrewer_99]

F**ck it. 4th of July again.....Doesn't matter that I have a 10 foot tall chainsaw carving of a bald eagle in my yard, I won't be able to go out because everyone will chase me down the street again with pitch forks and muskets.

Frank N. Stein, is that you?

 

[Ashz]

F**ck it. 4th of July again.....Doesn't matter that I have a 10 foot tall chainsaw carving of a bald eagle in my yard, I won't be able to go out because everyone will chase me down the street again with pitch forks and muskets.

Man that's wierd. I thought it was isolated to the rednecks in my home town to chase gnomes with pitch forks and muskets. It must be spreading.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Man that's wierd. I thought it was isolated to the rednecks in my home town to chase gnomes with pitch forks and muskets. It must be spreading.

Here they chase Gnomes and Englishmen. I'm F##ked on two counts. Sometimes they even set their vampire onto me, who tries to bite me with his tooth.

 

[homebrewer_99]

here they chase gnomes and englishmen. I'm f##ked on two counts. Sometimes they even set their vampire onto me, who tries to bite me with his tooth.

rotflmao!!!:d

 

[tedpeer]

Smoke 8# of brisket today, brewing on the 4th. What could be more patriotic than brewing beer on the 4th of July? Ok, other than shooting guns...

 

[Beerrific]

. What could be more patriotic than brewing beer on the 4th of July?

Smoking meat.

 

[Homercidal]

And the others believe we got independence on July 4th...idiots!!!

The Treaty of Paris officially ended the Revolutionary War and was signed on September 3, 1783. I think that date is our country's REAL birthday.

Other "lost history" (i.e., not taught in schools) is that we had "Continental Congress Presidents" before George Washington became the first President of the United States. Some people think GW became our president on July 4, 1776.

Their office was created by the articles of confederation rather then the Constitution of the United States.

They were:

1. Peyton Randolph
2. Henry Middleton
3. Peyton Randolph
4. John Hancock
5. Henry Laurens
6. John Jay
7. Samuel Huntington
8. Thomas McKean (I lived on Mc Kean St. in So. Philly...)
9. John Hanson
10. Elias Boudinot
11. Thomas Mifflin (I lived on Mifflin St. in So. Philly...)
12. Richard Henry Lee
13. John Hancock[g]
14. Nathaniel Gorham
15. Arthur St. Clair
16. Cyrus Griffin

Another little known fact:

John Jay's full name was John Jacob Jingelheimer Schmidt. But it was too long, and every time his name was spoken, everyone would burst out into an very annoying song (which was a popular drinking song at the time!).

So a vote was held in committee to shorten his name as to prevent meetings from degrading into a debacle all the time.

Disclaimer: It is possible that I made this whole thing up. History is often very hard to prove...