Ambient vs. Internal temperatures question

[pc_trott]

Hi, I'm a rank beginner, starting with a Block Party Amber Ale from Northern Brewers. I have a question that the brewing books I've read (Palmer's "How to Brew," and J. and D. Fisher's "Brewing Made Easy") don't really address, and I've searched the site here without finding what I'm looking for. I hope I'm able to ask the question intelligently. (There's a first time for everything!)

The Block Party Amber kit includes a packet of Munton's Ale Yeast, noting that it has an optimum temp. of 57-77 degrees F. My basement, where I plan to do the fermentation, has an ambient temperature right around 60 degrees F at this time of year. Is the "optimum temperature" the ambient temperature? Or is it the internal temperature of the wort? The instructions say to add the yeast to the fermenter when the wort is 78 degrees F or lower. Will the yeast start to work before the temperature drops to 60?

The only finished room in my basement is an unheated bathroom, but I have a small radiator that I can place in there and set to a given temperature. Would it be a good idea to heat the bathroom up a few degrees, say 65, and put the primary in there? Having read all the posts saying the fermenting temp is crucial to the end product, I'm hoping to avoid making a batch of drain cleaner.

Thanks for any replies!
Peter

 

[Jag75]

If your temp in your basement is a steady 60 then it should be fine . 60 and 65 are in that desired temp for that yeast . I pitch at the cooler side of preferred temp when not using my temp control. So if I pitch at 65 the temp will rise once fermentation starts.

 

[lump42]

Is the "optimum temperature" the ambient temperature? Or is it the internal temperature of the wort?

The temperature of the wort not the air around it.

The instructions say to add the yeast to the fermenter when the wort is 78 degrees F or lower. Will the yeast start to work before the temperature drops to 60?

Yes the yeast will begin before it drops to 60. Once the yeast become active, they'll give off their own heat and make it difficult to keep it within the "optimum" range. For ales, I usually will chill my wort down below my target temperature, pitch, and let the fermentation free ride in my 62-62F basement. The internal temperature can often be 10F above ambient temperatures.

Would it be a good idea to heat the bathroom up a few degrees, say 65, and put the primary in there?

For this recipe and this yeast, I don't think this is necessary. Typically, if the fermentation is on the lower end of the yeast's temp range, fermentation will be a little slower to start and finish, but also less yeast-derived characters. Either way, 60 or 65F ambient temps would not themselves create a dumper. As long as you clean and sanitize everything post-boil and follow the recipe, you'll have good beer.

 

[Immocles]

I brewed that same kit as my first just over a year ago. I fermented in a corner in our back room. That particular room is a newer addition and has no vent outside of a gas space heater thats only in use when we are actually hanging out back there ( which is daily, but is shut off at night and when we aren't around). It was January, in Minnesota. It got cold. I'd say my ambient temps in that room ranged from at least down to 50F-66F regularly during those two weeks. Beer turned out fantastic, so letting it ride in the basement should be acceptable. I really like that particular kit, solid first choice.

 

[ncbrewer]

Welcome to HBT and brewing.

For future batches, there are more efficient ways to heat the fermenter. I use a swamp cooler for cooling. Mine is a WalMart wash tub with water up to about the 3 gallon line, adding ice bottles as needed. For heating, I hold a seedling warming mat up to the tub with some rope, and control it with a thermostat from a probe in the bath water. Others use the tub of water with an aquarium heater, which would work better. Some skip the water bath and use a heat belt. A probe taped to the side of the fermenter, with insulating foam over it, would be used to control power to the warming belt.

 

[DVCNick]

As noted they are talking about the wort temp, not ambient temp.
If you want to heat it, you can get a temp controller and carboy heat wrap for probably 60 bucks combined, it is a one time cost and takes up little space, and if your ambient is cold enough to always be dragging the temp down, you can precisely control temp with no more equipment than this.

If your basement is truly at an ambient 60 all the time, you could easily just leave the carboy there for the first week and a half and temp would probably be fine. After that you might actually want to move it to a warmer area.

The fermentation does generate some heat, but personally, the most differential I've observed using a thermal probe into the middle of the wort is about 3 or 4 degrees... ymmv.

 

[pc_trott]

As noted they are talking about the wort temp, not ambient temp.
If you want to heat it, you can get a temp controller and carboy heat wrap for probably 60 bucks combined, it is a one time cost and takes up little space, and if your ambient is cold enough to always be dragging the temp down, you can precisely control temp with no more equipment than this.

If your basement is truly at an ambient 60 all the time, you could easily just leave the carboy there for the first week and a half and temp would probably be fine. After that you might actually want to move it to a warmer area.

Thanks, I did purchase a temp controller when I was thinking that the basement temperature wasn't going to be high enough. Are you saying that in your experience, it would be better to raise the temperature above 60 for the final week or so of the ferment? If so, what would you suggest as the ideal temperature to set the heat wrap at, noting that the ideal temp on the yeast package is 57-77 degrees?

 

[RM-MN]

If so, what would you suggest as the ideal temperature to set the heat wrap at, noting that the ideal temp on the yeast package is 57-77 degrees?

The temperature on the yeast package is the temperature during the active fermentation when the yeast would be giving you off flavors if too warm or fermenting so slowly that any bacteria could get a colony established before the yeast created conditions that precluded that. At the end of fermentation the temperature isn't critical and you do want the yeast to clean up any byproducts so warm it to at least the low 70's.

 

[DVCNick]

Thanks, I did purchase a temp controller when I was thinking that the basement temperature wasn't going to be high enough. Are you saying that in your experience, it would be better to raise the temperature above 60 for the final week or so of the ferment? If so, what would you suggest as the ideal temperature to set the heat wrap at, noting that the ideal temp on the yeast package is 57-77 degrees?

Yeah low to mid 70's for the last few days before packaging is popular.
If your basement is truly 60 all year, that's great... you'll never have to worry about cooling equipment (short of lagering I guess), which is a much bigger pain than heating equipment. When my house is cool in the winter, I can just wrap the carboy with the heater, set the temp controller, and it will stay right there. Carboy can be anywhere in the house.

It's too hot in the summer and requires cooling. First year I did the swamp cooler. Only had room for one carboy in it, had to check the temp at least twice a day and sometimes regulate with added ice bottles, etc. This year I got a chest freezer, it's definitely an upgrade since it will hold a steady temp indefinitely, and will hold two carboys, but... it takes up space, and it is still limited to two carboys.

 

[pc_trott]

Here in Coos Bay, OR, the average summer highs are around 65F, and the winter lows around 40F, so the temperature in my basement stays pretty near 60 all year. I've been reading everything I can find on this brewing hobby since my wife got me a beginner's setup at Christmas, and I'm thinking if I get anything drinkable on the first shot, it'll be a miracle!

Thanks all of you experts for your advice both in this thread and elsewhere on the site. I'm learning, but my old brain doesn't absorb things as quick as it used to. (Could it be the effects of too much beer? :>)