all my beer taste the same

[darby_ross]

Over the past year I have brewed many batches of beer. Some taste great but the majority have the same taste. The best I can describe is a somewhat astringent/medicinal taste. Generally when I take samples before bottling or kegging the beer taste great but soon after that the taste begins out subtle then becomes more pronounced after weeks of aging. After losing so many batches I began to systematically change the way I cleaned, brewed and bottled. First change was with sanitation, I started using pbw and starsan. Still got the same taste. I then switched to bottled water. Same taste. I have changed from plastic fermentation buckets to glass, I have replaced all tubing with silcone, I have gotten better thermometers for temperature controll while steeping grains, I have gotten a freezer with temperature control to have a set fermentation temp. With all these changes I still get a beer that has the same taste. I generally brew partial exact kits and with those kits I have different types of yeast both dry and liquid. Any suggestion would be much appreciated.

 

[Trox]

What temp are you steeping your grains at?

Edit: And for how long?

 

[darby_ross]

Between 150 to 154 for generally 30 mins. No sparging either

 

[agcorry00]

If you make a pure extract brew does it taste the same?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[jonmohno]

So if you made an ipa a hefeweizen and a stout they all have the same taste? do you know if your ingredients are fairly fresh and not old? Is your starsan too strong. Have you tried idophor?

 

[WileECoyote]

Hello, Just a thought ! Sounds to me like you might be experiencing co2 taste in your beer, after kegging and putting it on the gas I leave my beer on the gas at 9 psi for 14 days before I ever pull a pint, and at around 20 days on the gas the beer becomes much better.

Co2 taste is nasty when its being absorbed into solution.

Cheers

 

[Yooper]

Over the past year I have brewed many batches of beer. Some taste great but the majority have the same taste. The best I can describe is a somewhat astringent/medicinal taste. Generally when I take samples before bottling or kegging the beer taste great but soon after that the taste begins out subtle then becomes more pronounced after weeks of aging. After losing so many batches I began to systematically change the way I cleaned, brewed and bottled. First change was with sanitation, I started using pbw and starsan. Still got the same taste. I then switched to bottled water. Same taste. I have changed from plastic fermentation buckets to glass, I have replaced all tubing with silcone, I have gotten better thermometers for temperature controll while steeping grains, I have gotten a freezer with temperature control to have a set fermentation temp. With all these changes I still get a beer that has the same taste. I generally brew partial exact kits and with those kits I have different types of yeast both dry and liquid. Any suggestion would be much appreciated.

Are you using tap water for each batch? "astringent/medicinal" to me points to chlorine in the brewing water. Have you ever tried using 100% reverse osmosis or distilled water?

 

[jonmohno]

Does your lhbs have a good turnover rate? Maybe try a minimash or small BIAB (or big if you have the equipment) all grain batch to see if its the same. You could also try rinsing with preboiled water to see if that helps. Are you using aluminum pots and cleaning them with oxyclean? I think this can cause it or has something to do with the protective oxides on aluminum pots. High iron also can cause metallic flavors if that may be also what your trying to describe.

 

[darby_ross]

To answer all questions I have brewed can kits with the same result. I have gotten ingredients from my lhbs, morebeer, and midwest so I dont thint its that. I havent tried ro water. Ive brewed everything from a Belgian, irish red, ipa, amber, and pale ale. Ive kegged and bottled the beer with same results.

 

[CBMbrewer]

Hello, Just a thought ! Sounds to me like you might be experiencing co2 taste in your beer, after kegging and putting it on the gas I leave my beer on the gas at 9 psi for 14 days before I ever pull a pint, and at around 20 days on the gas the beer becomes much better.

Co2 taste is nasty when its being absorbed into solution.

I second this. Some of us are really sensitive to carbonic acid, which is what is formed when co2 and h2o interact. With time it will pass. So if it doesn't, obviously, it is another issue.

 

[akillys]

I'm quite new to this as well but could this off flavor come from adding LME to early in the boil? Could adding the LME in the last 15 min. make a difference? To me it seems like this is the only variable the OP has not changed.

 

[wilconrad]

To answer all questions I have brewed can kits with the same result. I have gotten ingredients from my lhbs, morebeer, and midwest so I dont thint its that. I havent tried ro water. Ive brewed everything from a Belgian, irish red, ipa, amber, and pale ale. Ive kegged and bottled the beer with same results.

I'll second Yooper's chlorine theory; are you brewing with tap water? If so, are you taking any steps to remove the chlorine/chloromines?

 

[jonmohno]

I'm quite new to this as well but could this off flavor come from adding LME to early in the boil? Could adding the LME in the last 15 min. make a difference? To me it seems like this is the only variable the OP has not changed.

Yes, its called extract twang. Im not really shure what it is or if its what I think it is. It seems to be a complaint sometimes with extract brewers. Usually adding half of the extract seems to help. Has something to do with carmalization of the malt.

 

[InLimbo]

After reading all these theories, I want to give another vote to look at your water profile.

As an aside, Palmer says that in order to not have medicinal flavors, you should rinse (in this case, your fermentation vessel) with boiled water after sanitizing.

 

[darby_ross]

For my boils I general add about a pound and a half of dme with my bulk of lme coming at 15 mins. I think for my next batch I will use distilled water and try rinsing my fermentor with boiled water after cleaning. Hopefully this will solve the problem.

 

[Croyzen]

I was never happy with extract brewing. There were flavors I was getting using extract that I have not gotten with all grain. Granted, all grain has produced other issues from time to time. Try an all grain batch in the brown/amber/stout style with the chlorine removed from your brewing water and see what you think. You can do this with minimal investment to test. Have the LHBS crush your grain. Do a small batch such as 1 gallon. Do BIAB.

 

[Trox]

Are you using tap water for each batch? "astringent/medicinal" to me points to chlorine in the brewing water. Have you ever tried using 100% reverse osmosis or distilled water?

That was one of the first things I thought too, but then saw he had switched to using bottled water and still got the same taste.

 

[JayDubWill]

+3 for looking at your brewing water. If your not treating it somehow (campden, boiling, etc) for chlorine/chloramine the beer will end up with a funky bandaid/medicinal taste. Second, do a search for late addition extract brewing. It will cut down on that twang, but I don't' know if there is a way to eliminate it competently except to go all-grain.

 

[Aonghus]

So there appears to be five main ideas for the undesired taste:
1.) Water (try distilled or use a campden tablet)
2.) Infection (unlikely considering you have replaced all soft parts and are using proper clean and sanitizer)
3.) Extract twang (good idea about trying BIAB to eliminate this possibility)
4.) Carbonic acid from force carbing (you might consider using DME or corn sugar to carb in the keg and only use enough c02 to purge the air from the keg. Then leave it disconnected from the keg and allow the yeast to carb it for you).
5.) Oxides from the kettle (you do not want a shiny aluminum kettle or a chipped ceramic kettle). Basically avoid scouring the protective coat off.


An empirical approach towards eliminating possibilities will pay off for you.

I am betting water is the issue (just my two cents worth). I suggest using campden tablets and also getting your local water assay and post it (if you would please).

 

[ross_daly]

Do you turn the burner off when adding the lme? I've burnt a batch before by adding lme when the flame was on and it had a similar flavor.

I'll second the people about chlorine / chloramines. Campden tablets are cheap and easier than ro water. Try adding one to your next boil.

Does the batch change in any way when you bottle vs keg? Are some of the bottles different than the others? I had a keg setup that once got infected and I lost 10-15 gallons of beer

 

[Gar]

Could this be a issue with not getting all the cleaner off?

 

[Arrheinous]

To clarify: it looks like OP's beers don't all taste the same but have the same twang.

Where are you getting extract from? Maybe the supply side is where the trouble is at. If it's from a LHBS the stockpile could be expired?

 

[Darwin18]

As an aside, Palmer says that in order to not have medicinal flavors, you should rinse (in this case, your fermentation vessel) with boiled water after sanitizing.

What version of Palmer are you looking at?

If you're using a no rinse Sanitizer like StarSan in the correct concentration then there is no need to sanitize as rinsing, even with boiled water, as rinsing invalidates the entire sanitizing process.

I'll vote for water profile or carbonic acid bite with the CO2.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Yeah.......the only thing to EVER cause this medicinal taste, in my experience, is bleach or the like (chloramines) not completely rinsed out, or found in the tap water.

I am always amazed at the "What temp do you mash at?" questions and only a few hitting what I percieve to be the obvious culprit.

Yes, it could be some bizarre Brett outbreak, or a few other obscure possibilities, but I think the simplest and most likely culprit should be thoroughly exhausted before exploring the more unusual ones, especially for a beginner who is a little bewildered to begin with.

 

[Taranis]

Not sanitizer - You switched process
Not water- you switched to bottled

What does that leave?
- Corbonic bite (my vote, as I had this exact issue before)
- Infamous 'extract twang' (not usually bad enough to cause one to discard a batch)


Have you let the beer age in the bottle for more than a month? Still have the twang, 2 months - get better?

 

[WileECoyote]

Over the past year I have brewed many batches of beer. Some taste great but the majority have the same taste. The best I can describe is a somewhat astringent/medicinal taste. Generally when I take samples before bottling or kegging the beer taste great but soon after that the taste begins out subtle then becomes more pronounced after weeks of aging. After losing so many batches I began to systematically change the way I cleaned, brewed and bottled. First change was with sanitation, I started using pbw and starsan. Still got the same taste. I then switched to bottled water. Same taste. I have changed from plastic fermentation buckets to glass, I have replaced all tubing with silcone, I have gotten better thermometers for temperature controll while steeping grains, I have gotten a freezer with temperature control to have a set fermentation temp. With all these changes I still get a beer that has the same taste. I generally brew partial exact kits and with those kits I have different types of yeast both dry and liquid. Any suggestion would be much appreciated.

In His OP He stated that he has used bottled water (thus eliminating the chlorine) and still has the same taste.

Cracks me up how many have said chlorine.

Cheers

 

[WileECoyote]

darby_ross,

How old are your beers from the time you bottle or keg to the time you are drinking them?

Cheers

 

[cheezydemon3]

In His OP He stated that he has used bottled water (thus eliminating the chlorine) and still has the same taste.

Cracks me up how many have said chlorine.

Cheers

Umm...sanitizer can still leave chlorine, and most bottled water around here says "MUNICIPAL WATER SUPPLY" or, You Guessed It!!!, tap water. CHEERS!

 

[fearwig]

After reading all these theories, I want to give another vote to look at your water profile.

As an aside, Palmer says that in order to not have medicinal flavors, you should rinse (in this case, your fermentation vessel) with boiled water after sanitizing.

Sounds like he means for bleach users. Not many of those around now.

as rinsing invalidates the entire sanitizing process.

Maybe if you're rinsing it with toilet water. But yes, you do not have to rinse StarSan and iodophor.

 

[WileECoyote]

Umm...sanitizer can still leave chlorine, and most bottled water around here says "MUNICIPAL WATER SUPPLY" or, You Guessed It!!!, tap water. CHEERS!

Really ? Yes and they filter out the chlorine too ! Guess you didn't know that.

He has also switched sanitizers

Cheers

 

[darby_ross]

I leave my batches in the primary for 2 weeks then keg. Roughly 4 days in keg before drinking. Normally when I bottle they stay in there 2 weeks before drinking. I think im gonna brew a smaller all grain batch(biab) and see if that helps. The only problem is that its not every batch that this happens too. I would say about every 3 out of 5 batches has that taste. So i may have to do multiple attempts at this to determine if thats the problem.

 

[fearwig]

Really ? Yes and they filter out the chlorine too ! Guess you didn't know that.

He has also switched sanitizers

Cheers

In His OP He stated that he has used bottled water (thus eliminating the chlorine) and still has the same taste.

Cracks me up how many have said chlorine.

Cheers

We ought to hold a contest to see if anyone can actually work more unnecessary confrontation into these posts, just as an exercise or something.

Anyway, if someone says "My beer tastes medicinal and astringent" people are going to say chlorine. There could be a number of ways that gets in his beer, but it's an obvious first suspect to eliminate. Bottled water may be more or less dechlorinated, but you don't know what you're getting. Just about all water has some chloride even without treatment, and some bottled water is tap water that is very, very slightly treated. I would not be amazed at all to find bottled water with high chloramines, especially store brand stuff.

Note he also said he gets this in bottling, though he doesn't say whether he's force carbing and bottling with a gun. If he's priming, then carbonic acid is out.

He says he's had ingredients from more than one source, so my other theory (bad LME) seems weak.

I think it's down to RO. It's not much more than bottled. Give it a try.

 

[ross_daly]

I think the most feasible answer so far has been it may be from using an unoxidized aluminum pot. Is that what you brew with?

The carbonic acid theory sounds pretty baseless to me. If you think that's the answer, shake a beer until it's dead flat and see if the off flavor is gone.

As for "extract twang." That has been beaten to death here (with no clear resolution.) I've had bad extract beers and bad all grain beers. There is such a thing as stale dme and lme, but I generally blame the worker who blames his tools. It sounds like he's sourced ingredients from 3x vendors as well. Not likely that he got bad ingredients from all of them.

Here's some more questions for you. I feel like we need more info to pin this down:
What kind of brew kettle do you use?
How do you store your filled bottles? What temp? How much does that fluctuate?
Do other people taste this same taste?
Have you ever submitted a beer to a contest?
What do you use to sanitize / clean your gear?
Do you taste "carbonic acid" in seltzer or soda?
Is there any (even minute) difference between the good and the bad batches in process, season, or ingredients?
What temp do you pitch at, and do you use a properly sized starter?
Could the beer be getting oxidized at any point?

You've definitely changed a lot of things out in trying to fix this off-flavor. Think about the things you haven't changed. When you brew with bottled water, do you still top off with tap water, perhaps? Is your keg/bottle cleaning impeccable?

One last thing is that sometimes it helps to brew with a second set of eyes around. If you have a buddy that brews, have him over and ask him if you're doing anything wrong. Have him taste a "bad" beer and see how he describes it.

I know that seems like a lot of questions, but I don't brew with you and I don't have your tongue or your beer, so it's important to ask a lot to see if anything seems off.

 

[fearwig]

I think if it were the pot, it would be oxidized by now. That always seemed like the biggest red herring to me anyway, but maybe I just haven't experienced it (my aluminum BK is very thoroughly oxidized--all over).

 

[WileECoyote]

I leave my batches in the primary for 2 weeks then keg. Roughly 4 days in keg before drinking. Normally when I bottle they stay in there 2 weeks before drinking. I think im gonna brew a smaller all grain batch(biab) and see if that helps. The only problem is that its not every batch that this happens too. I would say about every 3 out of 5 batches has that taste. So i may have to do multiple attempts at this to determine if thats the problem.

The Bold I highlighted in your reply is the taste problem.

Try your beer 14 days on the gas after kegging and aging/conditioning it for 2 months before you put it on the gas, and I would bet it taste good, beer 4 days on the gas taste nasty.

Only 2 weeks in the bottle carbing up can taste nasty too.

Most 2 week old beer taste nasty too.

Give your beer some time to get good, Try 2 months on one of your bad tasting beers before you drink it and I'll bet it will taste good !

Im sure you are tasting green beer flavor too.

Cheers

 

[WileECoyote]

We ought to hold a contest to see if anyone can actually work more unnecessary confrontation into these posts, just as an exercise or something.

Maybe we should, you'll will be right there too.

Cheers

 

[ross_daly]

I think if it were the pot, it would be oxidized by now. That always seemed like the biggest red herring to me anyway, but maybe I just haven't experienced it (my aluminum BK is very thoroughly oxidized--all over).

I think the big difference is that some people will scrub their alu. pot until it shines with something abrasive. That'll definitely give you a bad flavor. I agree with you though Fearwig, I've used an aluminum pot a LOT and been ok. Just like oxygenating beer when racking to secondary/bottling - it doesn't seem like a big deal until your beer tastes bad.

 

[Wingnutt73]

I have the same issue. I actually created a thread too. And I tried the water and it seem to help but I think it is a combination of the water and temp ( In my case that is). Any who check it out here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/all-my-brews-taste-same-444012/ maybe there is something there that is not here????

Hope this helps and if you pin it down let me know. Lastly I think the Extract Twang may be a contributing factor. Just my 2 cents.

 

[fearwig]

Even if OP only leaves it in the keg four days before drinking, I don't think he is drinking the whole thing that very day, or even that week. I mean I hope not. So I am 99% sure this is not an issue of how long it's in the keg, because it doesn't need to be in the keg all that long, by any account, for this flavor to diminish even for those who experience it. And then it stands to reason he'd notice the flavor had disappeared after a week or two.

 

[WileECoyote]

Hi darby_ross,

Please read post #35 I am really trying to help you and I'll bet if you try it, it will help.

You don't have anything to loose by trying it, much better than dumping another batch if you ask me.

When I started out I listened to the people saying beer is good at 2 to 3 weeks old and tried drinking my beers in 2 to 3 weeks too, tried other peoples beers at 2 to 3 weeks also, and I have yet to have anyones beer at 2 to 3 weeks old that is even worth drinking.

Do whatever you want, after all its your beer !

I was just trying to help the OP but I guess others here take offense to that.

Cheers