Ale versus Lager

[14thstreet]

I'm looking for a recipe that I'll split into separate fermentations, one with an ale yeast and the other with a lager yeast. The purpose is to showcase the difference yet still produce very drinkable beers. Is there a particular style recipe that would be well suited for this? Perhaps something with malt/hop balance so that the yeast contribution can be recognized by perhaps less-than-discerning palates?

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Try an Irish Red recipe. Another recipe I love to use is a Bock recipe. Both taste excellent as an ale or lager.

 

[jthoresen]

Funny, I'm going to be doing this with my Munich Helles, Munich Helles > Blonde Ale.

 

[Hex]

You could go 'Belgian' and do a golden ale and a pilsner, using continental pilsner malt and Saaz/Halertauer.

 

[shelly_belly]

I've done this one both ways. Huge difference in the final product. Both were very delicious.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f65/irish-red-1st-place-hbt-comp-141086/

 

[Revvy]

A basic cream "ale" is a really nice comparrison. I've done my version as both, they're both nice. I've never done it as a side by side though. Which is great.

 

[timbudtwo]

I know that the lager and ale yeast will be different, but doesn't most of that difference come from the actual lagering? If you use a clean ale yeast I would expect it to be pretty close to a lager yeast if you don't lager it.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

I know that the lager and ale yeast will be different, but doesn't most of that difference come from the actual lagering? If you use a clean ale yeast I would expect it to be pretty close to a lager yeast if you don't lager it.

I'm assuming he's planning on lagering one. He said he'd be putting them in two seperate fermentations, so I hope he's planning on lagering one. If not, he's going to get a lot of off flavors in the final product.

 

[14thstreet]

Yes, I plan to lager. It'll be my first, but my father and I have been asked to brew this for a tasting party in November, so we do have time for several attempts if need be. My first thought was an oktoberfest but all your suggestions are pretty good and worthy of considering. It helps because I've been in an IPA rut since December.

 

[Arneba28]

Pale Ale. I did this once with a American Rye Pale Ale that I made. It was great. Used 1056 for the ale and 2035 for the lager. Both seemed to highlight different things. The ale highlighted Rye and mild hopping while the lager was malty and clean with only undertones of rye

 

[wedge421]

Do a pale ale base and get a pilsner type beer out of it?

 

[timbudtwo]

Yes, I plan to lager.

Gotcha. I will agree with the irish red ale. I just brewed one up yesterday, but mine will remain as an ale. Here is the recipe I used:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f65/irish-red-1st-place-hbt-comp-141086/

 

[Bob]

You could go 'Belgian' and do a golden ale and a pilsner, using continental pilsner malt and Saaz/Halertauer.

This.

If the beers are for a tasting party, do SMaSH and make the variable the ferment.

One wort - all Pils malt, ~1.050, bittered to ~25IBU - one a clean, subtle lager and the other a Belgian ale. Nice.

Cheers,

Bob

P.S. If you've never brewed a lager beer before, pick up a copy of Noonan's book. It's the Bible.

 

[14thstreet]

Would anyone have specific yeast suggestions? Never before went with a lager strain or an expressive Belgian either.

Thanks for the advice Bob, that may be a good Father's Day present for my dad. It may get him away from all the rhubarb beers he makes!

 

[onthekeg]

It all depends on what you are after. I have done an Irish Red with s-04, s-05, 3522,t-58 WLP-830, 840 and 2042.
They were all the same recipe, but made at different times.

 

[14thstreet]

I'd be after a strain (ale) that would produce a noticeable and easily described impact on the beer while the lager strain would be smooth and clean but easy to manage (for a first timer). This party is for enjoyment and instructional purposes for non-homebrewers. And because I'm stingy with my yeast, I'd like them to be versatile for other beers in the future.

 

[Bob]

Gotcha.

I suggest S-23 dry lager yeast. Pitching 2 reydrated sachets of dry yeast is a hell of a lot easier to pitch correctly than building a large starter and and and...

For the Belgian strain, prefer Wyeast Belgian Ardennes (3522).

Cheers,

Bob

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Gotcha.

I suggest S-23 dry lager yeast. Pitching 2 reydrated sachets of dry yeast is a hell of a lot easier to pitch correctly than building a large starter and and and...

For the Belgian strain, prefer Wyeast Belgian Ardennes (3522).

Cheers,

Bob

Ardennes is an amazing yeast.

 

[Homercidal]

When I made my first Lager, I fermented a gallon or so with Nottingham and the rest with an Oktoberfest lager yeast. I haven't sat down and tasted them side-by-side, but I actually think the notty was a bit cleaner. I may have underpitched the lager yeast though.

Either way, they are decent beers and I can say with certainty that they are different in flavor.

 

[14thstreet]

Brewed up our first run this past weekend. All Belgian pilsner malt to 1.047 with homegrown hops Galena for bittering (hopefully around 20IBUs) and Saaz for finishing. 5 gallon batch split in half, one half getting a packet of S-23 and the other the Ardennes strain. We pitched the dry yeast once the lager half was down to 48F.