Advice Needed

[traviswalken]

I have moved fairly quickly from extract to BIAB on the stove to batch sparging (propane burners, no pumps). I have a 10 gallon system that works okay.

My last brew day was a little challenging. It was about 25F outside and I was fighting low mash temps, frozen hoses, frozen propane tanks and slippery conditions.

Long story short, I am interested in moving into the basement with my brewing.

Soooooo. I have done a little research. I see two viable options.

1. Purchase the ebiab system from high gravity: http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/BIAB-Electric-Brewing-System-276p3987.htm

2. Retrofit my current system (8.5 gal turkey fryer HLT, 13 gallon rectangular cooler MLT, and 15.5 gal BK)

I lean toward option 1 because it is simple and probably less expensive.

I think biab is a good brewing method. I moved to batch sparging because it was messy in my kitchen and I couldn't control mash temps well. The high gravity system takes care of these problems.

FWIW, I have a dryer outlet in my basement that should work for this.

What do you guys think?

Thanks.

 

[rgauthier20420]

I'd imagine you could retrofit your current system into electric for less than what that system will cost you. Plus, you'll get to make use of all of your current equipment.

Get yourself 2 5500W elements and put 1 in your HLT and 1 in your BK. You can maintain temps just fine in a cooler for mashing, so you don't need anything for HERMS or RIMS. Put together a panel with 1 PID for controlling HLT temps and maintain power output for the BK. Everything should be able to run off the dryer circuit.

There's TONS of much smarter people on here me, but that's just stuff that I've learned from reading all this stuff on the forums. Good luck.

 

[sennister]

Just be aware that the dryer circuit isn't likely GFCI protected. While it means that there is a free slot in the main panel. You might have wires that you can reuse if you pull the dryer outlet and hook it up to a spa panel for GFCI. You would want to do 4 conductor wire as you have 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground. Many times dryers more so if they are old won't have the Ground.

As for options here is another one out there.

http://electricbiab.com/

About the same price as your option #1.

If it were me, while option #1 is less messing around it ultimately leads to less capability. If you go with a custom built one, it is more work but it lets you do more if you want to move on from BIAB at some point. If you go with one of the turn key BIAB systems it may be kind of hard to move on from there. It also means you know how it works and if something goes wrong at some point, you can fix it. For me that would be enough to not go with a turn key solution. I also like to tinker with things so that is another advantage. For me I am willing to live with extract for a few more months while I work on my build.

 

[traviswalken]

Thanks for the replies. I am leaning toward just getting an e-biab system and selling off my other equipment. I have a hard time finding time to brew let alone build electric brewing equipment.

I will definately make sure I have GFCI protection before brewing. I live in a 100 year old house, but it was rewired a few years ago (before I purchased it). They pulled permits for the rewire, so I would guess the dryer wiring is good. However, I don't believe GFCI is standard for dryers. I will need to figure that out (spa panel or GFCI breaker?)

Thanks for the link to electricbiab. I have sent him an email with a couple questions. I have also talked with Dave at high gravity.

I think both systems would work well, but need to do a little more research.

Thanks again.

 

[sennister]

Thanks for the replies. I am leaning toward just getting an e-biab system and selling off my other equipment. I have a hard time finding time to brew let alone build electric brewing equipment.

I will definately make sure I have GFCI protection before brewing. I live in a 100 year old house, but it was rewired a few years ago (before I purchased it). They pulled permits for the rewire, so I would guess the dryer wiring is good. However, I don't believe GFCI is standard for dryers. I will need to figure that out (spa panel or GFCI breaker?)

Thanks for the link to electricbiab. I have sent him an email with a couple questions. I have also talked with Dave at high gravity.

I think both systems would work well, but need to do a little more research.

Thanks again.

I happened to stumble across this video today. Sounds like they will do another one shortly in case it helps to see it in action.



As for the GFCI. There are two options which are pretty close in price.

1. add a 240v breaker to your existing panel and run wire to the spa panel which has a GFCI in it then run wire to an outlet.

2. install a 240v GFCI breaker in the main panel and run the wire to an outlet.

Since you may already have a free breaker of adequate size, option 1 would work out to be a little cheaper. Also you can change the wiring a bit or leave existing wiring there if it works. Leave the existing breaker in the main panel and all wiring. Take a spa panel and make a short whip which plugs into the dryer outlet and another with an outlet for the brewery. The benefit of this option is that you can bring your GFCI with you. As long as you have a 30A (doesn't need GFCI) outlet with 4 wire plug you could plug in and brew. Maybe that is a garage or a buddy's house. If you go with the breaker in the main panel (option 2) you have to keep in mind that they are not all compatible. So you have to buy a Square-D breaker if you have a Square-D panel. When dealing with a Spa panel you can go with whatever the cheapest option is out there that meets the requirements. A 30A 240v Square-D GFCI for your main panel may be $100 but you might find an Eaton Spa panel for $50. While an Eaton 240v 30A GFCI breaker won't work inside your Square-D panel, that doesn't apply in the case of a sub panel or spa panel.

 

[traviswalken]

I happened to stumble across this video today. Sounds like they will do another one shortly in case it helps to see it in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4stbRizMLsk

As for the GFCI. There are two options which are pretty close in price.

1. add a 240v breaker to your existing panel and run wire to the spa panel which has a GFCI in it then run wire to an outlet.

2. install a 240v GFCI breaker in the main panel and run the wire to an outlet.

Since you may already have a free breaker of adequate size, option 1 would work out to be a little cheaper. Also you can change the wiring a bit or leave existing wiring there if it works. Leave the existing breaker in the main panel and all wiring. Take a spa panel and make a short whip which plugs into the dryer outlet and another with an outlet for the brewery. The benefit of this option is that you can bring your GFCI with you. As long as you have a 30A (doesn't need GFCI) outlet with 4 wire plug you could plug in and brew. Maybe that is a garage or a buddy's house. If you go with the breaker in the main panel (option 2) you have to keep in mind that they are not all compatible. So you have to buy a Square-D breaker if you have a Square-D panel. When dealing with a Spa panel you can go with whatever the cheapest option is out there that meets the requirements. A 30A 240v Square-D GFCI for your main panel may be $100 but you might find an Eaton Spa panel for $50. While an Eaton 240v 30A GFCI breaker won't work inside your Square-D panel, that doesn't apply in the case of a sub panel or spa panel.

Thanks. I emailed the electricbiab this morning with some questions. He also sent me a link the the video. I will watch it tonight.

Regarding GFCI, if I want to use the same outlet as my dryer, can I just swap the breaker that is already in the panel with a gfci breaker? I would save the old breaker so I can add a circuit in the future if I want to.

 

[sennister]

Thanks. I emailed the electricbiab this morning with some questions. He also sent me a link the the video. I will watch it tonight.

Regarding GFCI, if I want to use the same outlet as my dryer, can I just swap the breaker that is already in the panel with a gfci breaker? I would save the old breaker so I can add a circuit in the future if I want to.

As long as the wire is heavy enough you could just pull the existing breaker and replace with a GFCI version. You do need to look at the brand of the breaker panel or the breakers in it and get the same GFCI breaker. There are some cases of cross compatibility but for the most part each company uses their own design in breaker retention and buss bar design. So you are kind of stuck. Can't just grab the cheapest one off amazon or your local hardware store.

This is why I mentioned the portable Spa panel option plugged into the existing outlet. No need to open the main panel or mess with anything. You are not tied to a brand like you are with the main panel, you can buy the cheapest one you can find that meets the requirements. Just plug it in where you are working. It gives you more flexibility which is another reason it is popular.

I also have a spare unused 220v 30a I think breaker for a dryer. We have a gas dryer so it isn't used. Doesn't help me though as I don't have room for a brewery in the laundry room. It is an older 3 wire design so no ground and I am moving the brewery to the pole barn.

 

[traviswalken]

As long as the wire is heavy enough you could just pull the existing breaker and replace with a GFCI version. You do need to look at the brand of the breaker panel or the breakers in it and get the same GFCI breaker. There are some cases of cross compatibility but for the most part each company uses their own design in breaker retention and buss bar design. So you are kind of stuck. Can't just grab the cheapest one off amazon or your local hardware store.

This is why I mentioned the portable Spa panel option plugged into the existing outlet. No need to open the main panel or mess with anything. You are not tied to a brand like you are with the main panel, you can buy the cheapest one you can find that meets the requirements. Just plug it in where you are working. It gives you more flexibility which is another reason it is popular.

I also have a spare unused 220v 30a I think breaker for a dryer. We have a gas dryer so it isn't used. Doesn't help me though as I don't have room for a brewery in the laundry room. It is an older 3 wire design so no ground and I am moving the brewery to the pole barn.

Thanks sennister. I have read your posts a couple times and done some searching through the hbt archives. I think I get it now. I think you are suggesting making a gfci extension chord. Essentially, I could unplug my dryer, plug in a cord connected to a spa box. I could then plug my brewing device into the spa box. This would give me a lot of flexibility.

I would guess the spa box will have wiring instructions.

 

[sennister]

Thanks sennister. I have read your posts a couple times and done some searching through the hbt archives. I think I get it now. I think you are suggesting making a gfci extension chord. Essentially, I could unplug my dryer, plug in a cord connected to a spa box. I could then plug my brewing device into the spa box. This would give me a lot of flexibility.

I would guess the spa box will have wiring instructions.

Yep. For about the same money you could either put the GFCI breaker in your main panel and have to open it up and do the work. Or like you now see what I am saying, make an extension cord with the Spa Panel in the middle. There are lots of things out there with info on wiring one of these. There should be directions. It isn't that hard. Hots to the two hot bars and neutral and ground to the neutral bar. Then plug it in. No need to mess with anything that is a live circuit. So safer to wire up if you are not sure and it is portable so if someone had a 30A 240v outlet you could simply plug in and brew there as long as the plug was the same or make a converter.

If you put the GFCI breaker in your panel you don't have the portability benefit.