Advice for "Lumberjack IPA" hops

[user 214470]

Hi, I'm a n00b homebrewer and would like to brew my first IPA, and I'm not really confident about the hop combination... My idea is to make what I would like to call the "Lumberjack IPA", let me explain

I would like the taste/aroma to remind of something like refreshing pine forest after the rain, so I'm thinking piney hops but I also would like to have some wood/wet earth character. I did my research and found out the most piney / tree sap hops are Simcoe, Chinook and Northern Brewer - what proportions/addition timing would you recommend for these hops?

I'm completely unaware of what hops should be used for that wood, wet earth character and what should be the proportions/timing in relation to piney hops...

I would like this IPA to be about 6~6.5% ABV and not overly bitter with IBU 40~45.

Any recommendations greatly appreciated!

 

[m00ps]

To me the most piney and resinous hops are:
SIMCOE - this is an absolute must. No questions
Columbus
Rakau
Chinook
Target
Southern cross
fuggles - woody, but not really suited for an IPA

basically goes in descending order IMO

 

[m00ps]

a large flameout/hopstand addition will get you a very aromatic IPA that could potentially be dripping iwth sap if you do it right. The IBUs will be very low if you keep the bittering and aroma additions reasonable.

use columbus for bittering and a bit for a flameout/hopstand
simcoe for flavor and throughout the hopstand and dry hopping
chinook I prefer to only add post-boil because it seems very aggressive but has a nice aroma

northern brewer cna be woody, but also sort of minty. If you want a hint of wood, id try adding some fuggles at flameout and a bit with the dry hop. Its a very low aa% hop so dont count on it being too assertive

 

[markstache]

I'm tweaking a porter recipe with the goal of having it taste like a cup of coffee enjoyed at a camp site. I use columbus, chinnok, and willamette (US fuggles). For an IPA, I think simcoe would be a great addition to these.

Also think about your malts. I'm going to add a little smoked malt to the next batch (just a hint) to give the hint of a camp fire.

 

[user 214470]

-

 

[user 214470]

Thanks guys, just as I thought - Simcoe should dominate in this one. Thank's for suggesting Fuggles, definitely will add those hoping to get some woodyness. Anything specific for "wet earth" aroma? As I understand Columbus is best for bittering IPA? One very important question - how long for hopstand? (never done this thing, sorry... )

As for the malts I'm thinking 80% Marris Otter, 12% Munchen malt, 8% Caramel malt - something along those lines... If you know some good malt tweaks for IPA, you're welcome to share


Markstache - that coffee porter sounds delicious Reminds me of one really good craft beer brewed with coffee beans I'd recommend you to try, but since I'm in different part of the world, not sure if you can get it in US... Anyways: Shark's Coffee Pot, Bottle
Although it says stout, it's really much more like a porter, really nice.

 

[Superdown]

Domaso – I've put together a basic outline of a recipe that might satisfy your needs here.

https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/lumberjack-ipa-3

Note that I've included something that some would consider very strange: partially decomposed leaves. Making a tincture from these can offer that 'wet earth' scent. Combined with the cedar/oak from Ringwood and the citrus/pine from Simcoe and Chinook, you could really have something interesting going on here!

Regarding the use of decomposed leaves:
http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/25/hunter-gatherer-magnus-nilsson/

 

[iijakii]

Are you wanting a very malty IPA? I personally wouldn't enjoy, at all, an IPA with that much crystal and munich. But if you're wanting a very malty/sweet one then by all means don't let me tell you what to do!

 

[user 214470]

Domaso – I've put together a basic outline of a recipe that might satisfy your needs here.

https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/lumberjack-ipa-3

Note that I've included something that some would consider very strange: partially decomposed leaves. Making a tincture from these can offer that 'wet earth' scent. Combined with the cedar/oak from Ringwood and the citrus/pine from Simcoe and Chinook, you could really have something interesting going on here!

Regarding the use of decomposed leaves:
http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/25/hunter-gatherer-magnus-nilsson/

Thanks a bunch Superdown!
I've never seen this decomposed leaves trick, but I might do the experiment Is this a common practice among homebrewers or is this something you "invented"? There are no brown/yellow tree leaves in my area yet but it'll happen in a month or so. Also - is it important what tree the leaves are from?

 

[aprichman]

If you're looking for an "earthy" hop you should use Columbus in late additions. I've done quite a few single hop beers with this year's Columbus harvest (from Yakima Valley Hops) and I would describe it as predominantly earthy with a bit of tea, herbal, pine, garlic/onion, and citrus undertones. I'm not a huge fan of it by itself, but it tends to play really well with other hops in my opinion.

Also I'm not a fan of caramel/crystal in pale beers at all, I would go 100% Marris Otter or Vienna if you're looking for a malty base.

 

[iijakii]

As for hop stand, 20-30 mins is plenty. I generally throw them in at flameout and then whirlpool for a few mins then start chilling since it takes me a bit with a small IC.

 

[m00ps]

To hopstand I will add my (absurdly large) flameout addition, cut the heat and cover my kettle. I let it sit there for an hour (though 30min would probably be fine) before turning on my chiller. Just be sure you have your kettle lid and chiller sanitized before the flame goes out

 

[aprichman]

To hopstand I will add my (absurdly large) flameout addition, cut the heat and cover my kettle. I let it sit there for an hour (though 30min would probably be fine) before turning on my chiller. Just be sure you have your kettle lid and chiller sanitized before the flame goes out

Hey m00ps - how large are your hopstands?

 

[user 214470]

Are you wanting a very malty IPA? I personally wouldn't enjoy, at all, an IPA with that much crystal and munich. But if you're wanting a very malty/sweet one then by all means don't let me tell you what to do!

I'm not really sure because as I've said I'm a newby at homebrewing... I wouldn't want it very malty, but not very light like bud light/corona-like either. A hint of sweetness would be nice. I'm looking for a refreshing beer as priority but with some body and a hair higher alcohol kick (as mentioned 6~6.5% abv)

Any adjustments of malts are welcome

 

[user 214470]

To hopstand I will add my (absurdly large) flameout addition, cut the heat and cover my kettle. I let it sit there for an hour (though 30min would probably be fine) before turning on my chiller. Just be sure you have your kettle lid and chiller sanitized before the flame goes out

Thanks for a detailed procedure, really helpful. As I'm new to homebrewing I don't have a coil chiller yet, I submerge my keggle in cold water tank and replenish with cold water until wort is chilled - does this method impact the hopstand procedure? (as I imagine the chilling is slower this way than using the coil chiller).

 

[m00ps]

no it shouldnt really matter. Just let it sit before you start you chilling process

 

[m00ps]

Hey m00ps - how large are your hopstands?

Theyve been getting pretty big. Last couple have been 12oz or more for a 5gal batch. I save 3-4oz for dry hopping and keg hopping, but basically put all my eggs in one basket

I like my IPAs with a pretty heavy emphasis on hopstand additions. Ive found it gives a much more pungent and juicy hop character that I felt was achievable in homebrew. I like to do half of it at flameout and the other half once the wort cools to 180F or so. I figure I get a bit more flavor from the flameout addition, but more aroma from the 180F addition so I sort my hops accordingly.

 

[Superdown]

I agree regarding maltiness overload.

Grains slightly adjusted:
https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/lumberjack-ipa-3

 

[Superdown]

And I suggested that caramel 120 for the raisin/prune flavor it brings.

He's asking for quite an exotic beer, here.

 

[aprichman]

Theyve been getting pretty big. Last couple have been 12oz or more for a 5gal batch. I save 3-4oz for dry hopping and keg hopping, but basically put all my eggs in one basket

I like my IPAs with a pretty heavy emphasis on hopstand additions. Ive found it gives a much more pungent and juicy hop character that I felt was achievable in homebrew. I like to do half of it at flameout and the other half once the wort cools to 180F or so. I figure I get a bit more flavor from the flameout addition, but more aroma from the 180F addition so I sort my hops accordingly.

How much wort loss are you experiencing from the 12oz additions? My massive hop project is almost funded which means I'll be doing a 48oz hop stand for a 5 gallon batch

 

[Superdown]

Cones absorb about 0.1-0.15 quarts per ounce.

Pellets are negligible.

 

[iijakii]

I'm not really sure because as I've said I'm a newby at homebrewing... I wouldn't want it very malty, but not very light like bud light/corona-like either. A hint of sweetness would be nice. I'm looking for a refreshing beer as priority but with some body and a hair higher alcohol kick (as mentioned 6~6.5% abv)

Any adjustments of malts are welcome

Basic IPA grain bills are as follows:

More standard -- 95% 2-Row with 5% of a low to medium crystal.
Drier -- 95% 2row with 5% victory or biscuit instead of crystal.

Also you can just do all marris otter instead of 2-row and crystal or anything. It'll all be good.

 

[m00ps]

How much wort loss are you experiencing from the 12oz additions? My massive hop project is almost funded which means I'll be doing a 48oz hop stand for a 5 gallon batch

wow, yeah you may need some sort of press to squeeze wort out of the hops. that will require some creative problem solving. dont want to end up like this
http://hopwhisperer.blogspot.com/2014/04/too-much-hops_4.html
http://hopwhisperer.blogspot.com/2014/04/yep-too-much-hops.html

I squeeze the bags with my brew spoon but I havent noticed too much wort loss. Like my final volume for an IPA with over a pound of hops probably only has like 1/4 gallon less at the end

 

[user 214470]

I agree regarding maltiness overload.

Grains slightly adjusted:
https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/lumberjack-ipa-3

I don't know why my reply to your previous post hasn't been posted (as I'm new here I my every post has to pass through moderator..)
Ok, I'll write again..

Thanks a bunch for the recipe Superdown!
Is this decomposing leaves thing a common practice in brewing or is it something you've "invented"? There are no brown/yellow leaves on the ground in my area yet, but they're coming in a month or so... And - is it important what tree the leaves are from?

Also - I'm quite some distance away from US and I probably can't get all the same supplies here (but I can get the majority of malts/hops selection), for example I can't get the Pride of Ringwood hops - is there a substitute for it?

As for the Simcoe hop - everyone was suggesting it as the main hop (me too) - shouldn't there be more Simcoe over Chinook in dry-hop phase? (I'd really like the pine to punch through to the nose, so you can tell why it's called "the Lumberjack" )

 

[user 214470]

Basic IPA grain bills are as follows:

More standard -- 95% 2-Row with 5% of a low to medium crystal.
Drier -- 95% 2row with 5% victory or biscuit instead of crystal.

Also you can just do all marris otter instead of 2-row and crystal or anything. It'll all be good.

Another great post for a newby, Thanks!
I don't want it dry, I'd prefer the "more standard" version (just a hint of sweetness). I'd say what I'm looking for could probably be described as more "AIPA" than "IPA"...

 

[Superdown]

I don't know why my reply to your previous post hasn't been posted (as I'm new here I my every post has to pass through moderator..)
Ok, I'll write again..

Thanks a bunch for the recipe Superdown!
Is this decomposing leaves thing a common practice in brewing or is it something you've "invented"? There are no brown/yellow leaves on the ground in my area yet, but they're coming in a month or so... And - is it important what tree the leaves are from?

Also - I'm quite some distance away from US and I probably can't get all the same supplies here (but I can get the majority of malts/hops selection), for example I can't get the Pride of Ringwood hops - is there a substitute for it?

As for the Simcoe hop - everyone was suggesting it as the main hop (me too) - shouldn't there be more Simcoe over Chinook in dry-hop phase? (I'd really like the pine to punch through to the nose, so you can tell why it's called "the Lumberjack" )

The recipe includes twice as much Simcoe as Chinook, and if you can't get Ringwood you can always substitute Saaz or Saphir (more European varietals).

The leaf thing was invented by a Swedish chef named Magnus Nilsson. I've brewed an award-winning doppelbock using rotten/old oak leaves in this same way. It gives the smell of dirt or a forest after a rain.

YMMV.

 

[user 214470]

The recipe includes twice as much Simcoe as Chinook, and if you can't get Ringwood you can always substitute Saaz or Saphir (more European varietals).

The leaf thing was invented by a Swedish chef named Magnus Nilsson. I've brewed an award-winning doppelbock using rotten/old oak leaves in this same way. It gives the smell of dirt or a forest after a rain.

YMMV.

Yep, Saaz is always available, I'll probably use that.
That leaf thing sounds awesome, really tempting to try - I'll probably do half with the leaves and half without.

 

[user 214470]

He's asking for quite an exotic beer, here.

Yeah, you know it's more like a mythical beer in my dreams, so it may not be achievable in reality
I managed to capture a screenshot from my brain :

 

[Superdown]

Yep, Saaz is always available, I'll probably use that.
That leaf thing sounds awesome, really tempting to try - I'll probably do half with the leaves and half without.

Change the recipe at-will. It's yours!

I recommend you try the vodka+leaves tincture (smell, taste) before you commit to it!

 

[user 214470]

Change the recipe at-will. It's yours!

I recommend you try the vodka+leaves tincture (smell, taste) before you commit to it!

Thanks! I might do some small adjustments but greatly appreciated for building me a base

A question about the leaves tincture - from your recipe I understand that you add the tincture (vodka liquid) to the beer? Wouldn't this rise the beer ABV really noticeably? Wouldn't it be better to strain the leaves from vodka and drop them in beer as in dry hopping?

 

[aprichman]

wow, yeah you may need some sort of press to squeeze wort out of the hops. that will require some creative problem solving. dont want to end up like this
http://hopwhisperer.blogspot.com/2014/04/too-much-hops_4.html
http://hopwhisperer.blogspot.com/2014/04/yep-too-much-hops.html

I squeeze the bags with my brew spoon but I havent noticed too much wort loss. Like my final volume for an IPA with over a pound of hops probably only has like 1/4 gallon less at the end

Wow, that's pretty crazy. I was planning on hitting 6.5 - 7 gallons post boil and using cone hops, so hopefully will avoid make peanut butter like hops

 

[Superdown]

Thanks! I might do some small adjustments but greatly appreciated for building me a base

A question about the leaves tincture - from your recipe I understand that you add the tincture (vodka liquid) to the beer? Wouldn't this rise the beer ABV really noticeably? Wouldn't it be better to strain the leaves from vodka and drop them in beer as in dry hopping?

The vodka is only about 4oz, or ~120ml. If you're making a 5 gallon batch, then it would have very little effect on the overall ABV.

You soak the leaves in vodka to sterilize them (to prevent infection) but also to extract the flavor from the leaves INTO the vodka. This is called a tincture, and it's used with vanilla beans and many other beer flavorings.

 

[user 214470]

The vodka is only about 4oz, or ~120ml. If you're making a 5 gallon batch, then it would have very little effect on the overall ABV.

You soak the leaves in vodka to sterilize them (to prevent infection) but also to extract the flavor from the leaves INTO the vodka. This is called a tincture, and it's used with vanilla beans and many other beer flavorings.

Understood. I wonder what would be the effect of sterilized leaves added as dry hops?