Adding LME to fermenter

[steveoc]

I brewed BYO's Old Rasputin Clone but using a full boil (as in Brewing Classic Styles) as opposed to the partial specified in the BYO recipe. Once I cooled it down I measured the OG at 1.080 as opposed to the 1.090 specified in the recipe.

Having read Extreme Brewing by Sam Calagione, I decided to just pitch the yeast and add some fermentables later during fermentation. His A-Z Ale specifies adding maple syrup from an unopened container. I thought the easiest thing to do would be add a pound or so of LME from a freshly opened bottle (sprayed down with Star San) directly to the fermenter.

Is there anything wrong with this approach?

 

[J187]

I bet by the beer gods, you are going to be fine - although next time, I'd boil it up in a little water prior to adding for two reasons...

1. To sanitize it. It's PROBABLY sterile, but not DEFINITELY.
2. To dissolve it fully. Adding it to chilled wort and stirring the best you can, might have left it less than completely dissolved.

One thing you can do is pull a sample last few minutes of your boil, providing your have no remaining grain or extract additions, and chill it in a mini ice bath. I have done this, where I'm suspicious of my gravity and so I pulled a sample at around 10 min, made a mini ice bath in the pitcher I use for recirculation, chilled the sample to 70 deg in 2 min, and checked the gravity. If you are short, you can add some extract before knockout and boil it for 5-10 min.

 

[steveoc]

I could boil it in a 2L erlenmeyer flask. I guess if I do that I could use DME and dextrose mixture.

I want to add minimum water because I already have more of that than calculated. That's why I thought about using straight LME.

I like the idea of pre-measuring the gravity, especially since I have shifted to full boil with varied results.

Thanks!

 

[Magic8Ball]

I brewed BYO's Old Rasputin Clone but using a full boil (as in Brewing Classic Styles) as opposed to the partial specified in the BYO recipe. Once I cooled it down I measured the OG at 1.080 as opposed to the 1.090 specified in the recipe.

Having read Extreme Brewing by Sam Calagione, I decided to just pitch the yeast and add some fermentables later during fermentation. His A-Z Ale specifies adding maple syrup from an unopened container. I thought the easiest thing to do would be add a pound or so of LME from a freshly opened bottle (sprayed down with Star San) directly to the fermenter.

Is there anything wrong with this approach?

Its been my understanding that you need a min of a 15 min boil to sanitize LME or DME. So you are rolling the proverbial sanitization dice. Sam C. was pitching simple sugars from maple syrup not LME (complex sugars). Depending on how much sugar was in the original recipe you could add table sugar (boiled in water, cooled first). Too much can make your beer cidery.

 

[J187]

I could boil it in a 2L erlenmeyer flask. I guess if I do that I could use DME and dextrose mixture.

I want to add minimum water because I already have more of that than calculated. That's why I thought about using straight LME.

I like the idea of pre-measuring the gravity, especially since I have shifted to full boil with varied results.

Thanks!

You wouldn't survive boiling even a fair amount of DME in a flask without a volcano. A 2L flask barely holds down a 1500 ml starter worth of DME - in fact, I've taken to boiling my starters in a pan and pouring into my flask. No way you'd get a pound of DME going in there... I wouldn't worry about a quart or two of extra water in your wort if you are adding DME anyway... if it really bothers you, you can compensate with a pinch more DME. You can do this if you are over in water to begin with - say you ended up topping off and you are at 5.5 gal and you intended 5 gal. You can do math or fire up beersmith and change the vol to 5.5 and adjust DME until the gravity comes back to where you need it.

 

[J187]

You can always take a gravity reading while the wort is chilling too, if it's already come down from 212 a good ways, it wouldn't take much more to get it to a reasonable temp for a reading in a tube. That will give you enough time to boil up some DME in a pot if you need to and get it in there before the wort is even pitching temp.

 

[kombat]

Its been my understanding that you need a min of a 15 min boil to sanitize LME or DME.

I was always under the impression that LME is pasteurized to prevent exploding tubs of it on store shelves. That said, in this particular case, the OP mentioned he's using LME that's already been previously opened, so any sterilization imparted by pasteurization has already been compromised. He'll probably still be fine, but I just wanted to point out that I believe FRESH, UNOPENED LME is safe to add directly to post-boil wort.

I don't know about DME. I always boil it just to be safe.

 

[Magic8Ball]

I was always under the impression that LME is pasteurized to prevent exploding tubs of it on store shelves...

Excellent point! I would still boil LME in some water to produce a less viscous liquid. I would be concerned that the undiluted LME would pool at the bottom of the fermentor and not be available for the yeast to eat. Tough enough to get that stuff to dissolve in hot water let alone a cooled wort.

 

[steveoc]

You wouldn't survive boiling even a fair amount of DME in a flask without a volcano. A 2L flask barely holds down a 1500 ml starter worth of DME - in fact, I've taken to boiling my starters in a pan and pouring into my flask. No way you'd get a pound of DME going in there... I wouldn't worry about a quart or two of extra water in your wort if you are adding DME anyway... if it really bothers you, you can compensate with a pinch more DME. You can do this if you are over in water to begin with - say you ended up topping off and you are at 5.5 gal and you intended 5 gal. You can do math or fire up beersmith and change the vol to 5.5 and adjust DME until the gravity comes back to where you need it.

I've experienced the erlenmeyer volcanoes myself. I was thinking about a dextrose lme mixture skewed toward dextrose. I also have a 5L flask I could press into service. I'm certainly at 5.5 gallons. The good news is I'll have a little extra RIS.

 

[steveoc]

I was always under the impression that LME is pasteurized to prevent exploding tubs of it on store shelves. That said, in this particular case, the OP mentioned he's using LME that's already been previously opened, so any sterilization imparted by pasteurization has already been compromised. He'll probably still be fine, but I just wanted to point out that I believe FRESH, UNOPENED LME is safe to add directly to post-boil wort.

I don't know about DME. I always boil it just to be safe.

No, I intended to open a fresh container of lme. I guess the wording of my OP left that ambiguous. Wouldn't even consider a previously opened container. As you point out the lme is pasteurized. I also run a bakery and once received malt extract that was compromised—it was an oozing foaming mess! Believe me, you'd recognize it when opening!

 

[steveoc]

Excellent point! I would still boil LME in some water to produce a less viscous liquid. I would be concerned that the undiluted LME would pool at the bottom of the fermentor and not be available for the yeast to eat. Tough enough to get that stuff to dissolve in hot water let alone a cooled wort.

Viscosity is a concern. In light of the excellent feedback, I plan to boil some lme and dextrose in a fairly concentrated solution, cool it and add it. Right now the fermentation has just started to slow down, so now is the time to do it.

 

[steveoc]

Took a pound of lme along with about 4 ounces of dextrose with some water with a total volume of 750 ml. Boiled it in an erlenmeyer, cooled to 80 degrees and threw it in the fermenter. Fermentation already picking up.

Looking forward to the Old Rasputin clone!

Thanks.

 

[steveoc]

Old Rasputin clone looks like a success. Measured the SG last night and it was already down to 1.022. After adding the malt extract/dextrose mixture I probably had the equivalent to an OG pretty close to 1.090. Tastes great and will get better with time. I think I'll be making this one again!

 

[Magic8Ball]

Old Rasputin clone looks like a success. Measured the SG last night and it was already down to 1.022. After adding the malt extract/dextrose mixture I probably had the equivalent to an OG pretty close to 1.090. Tastes great and will get better with time. I think I'll be making this one again!

Interesting solution to a lower than expected original gravity and a great conclusion! Very glad to hear that you had no side issues. I will have to keep that in my bag of tricks. Now just try not to drink it all before it has a few months to age. Your patience will be richly rewarded.

 

[steveoc]

Beyond that, it validates the strategy of adding fermentables during fermentation as an approach to creating higher gravity beers. When I think about it, I added the lme/dextrose solution while the krausen was falling. Most of the sugars had likely already turned to alcohol which provides a degree of protection from infection. The yeast reacted in less than 2 hours. The supplemental fermentables were met by copious healthy hungry yeast cells that made quick work of their new food as opposed to stressing the yeast initially with a higher gravity wort.

The SG is just a shade over 1.020. Flavor developing nicely. Will keg it this weekend. BYO says it is ready in 4 weeks. I just got 2 growlers of lme from a new LHBS in exchange for making their website. Going to make another batch this weekend because I suspect I'll have a real hard time keeping my hands off it.

 

[sr20steve]

You wouldn't survive boiling even a fair amount of DME in a flask without a volcano. A 2L flask barely holds down a 1500 ml starter worth of DME - in fact, I've taken to boiling my starters in a pan and pouring into my flask. No way you'd get a pound of DME going in there... I wouldn't worry about a quart or two of extra water in your wort if you are adding DME anyway... if it really bothers you, you can compensate with a pinch more DME. You can do this if you are over in water to begin with - say you ended up topping off and you are at 5.5 gal and you intended 5 gal. You can do math or fire up beersmith and change the vol to 5.5 and adjust DME until the gravity comes back to where you need it.

Fermcap s is your friend, a few drops and no volcano...I do full 2L starters with zero boil over.