Adding a Secondary Regulator

[daphatgrant]

So, I thought that this would be easy, ha. I have a Taprite dual gauge regulator that I was hooking to a 3-way distributor to go to my 3 kegs. I'd like to start kegging things other than beer along with my beer. I did some research and thought that adding a secondary regulator would be perfect. I figured I could keep using my dual gauge regulator, remove the high pressure gauge and place it on secondary regulator, add a 1/4"npt tp 1/4" mfl, throw some hose in there and be happy. I even made up some nice diagrams before hand. Well tonight I went to put everything together and the the high pressure gauge is left hand threaded...

So... I've been meaning to buy another regulator for my 20# "utility" tank that I use for purging kegs and the occasional unsuccessful force carbing. Should I buy another dual gauge regulator that has right hand thread gauges and do what I had intended originally? Or should I use the dual gauge regulator I have and buy a high pressure right hand thread gauge and a left hand thread shut-off with check valve (if they exist)?

Here's are the regulators that I currently have and the shut-offs.

Primary - https://www.midwestsupplies.com/taprite-co2-regulator-with-1-4-mfl
Secondary - https://www.morebeer.com/products/secondary-regulator-2.html?site_id=7#
Replacement Shut-offs - https://www.morebeer.com/products/shutoff-valve-14-mpt-mfl.html

Original plans:

 

[daphatgrant]

So after some serious looking I can't find a left hand thread shut-off. The only thing I can think of doing is getting a left hand to right hand nipple and a female coupler or union. Like below. What a pain in the ass... On a serious note I'm assuming that the left hand thread is to prevent people from hooking low pressure stuff to the high pressure side? I say that but the secondary regulator is all right hand thread... who knows?

Left hand to right hand thread hex nipple - https://www.homebrewing.org/Hex-Nipple-LHT-to-RHT_p_3203.html
Female Coupler - https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/83294736
High Pressure Gauge (right hand thread) - https://www.morebeer.com/products/pressure-gauge-high-rht.html

 

[daphatgrant]

Or I can just add another secondary regulator. I'm guessing that the secondary regulators are not made to handle high pressures. I guess I assumed that they could handle the same as a primary regulator. I'll probably just do what I put below and not cob it together.

For this plan I'll pick up:
Single secondary regulator - https://www.homebrewing.org/Taprite-Secondary-Regulator_p_2964.html
1-1/2" x 1/4" nipple - https://www.homebrewing.org/Taprite-Brass-Hex-Nipple-14-NPT-x-1-12-long-RHT_p_4330.html

 

[day_trippr]

Tap Rite secondaries need a minimum +5 psi input-to-output differential and iirc have a max input pressure of 60psi.
Based on that max input you can see why the input and output of a secondary regulator are both "low pressure".
And you were correct about the high pressure left-hand threads vs low pressure right-hand threads.
It's to keep folks from doing anything overtly stupid

fwiw, I use Tap Rite, Chudnow and Micro Matic regulators, and rank them in that order...

Cheers!

 

[daphatgrant]

It's to keep folks from doing anything overtly stupid

Thanks man, that gave me a chuckle .

I'll stick with getting a single secondary regulator and adding it to the dual secondary regulator that I already have.

 

[SEndorf]

Not sure why you're looking at all the shutoff valves. And why a HP gauge at the end of the secondarys.
I run a dual gauge primary off the tank (set at 30 psi) to a 6 gauge taprite. Each gauge has it's own shutoff valve. Same principal in a 2 or 3 gauge setup.

 

[daphatgrant]

Nice looking setup man!

View attachment 551658
Not sure why you're looking at all the shutoff valves.

I was swapping them out for MFL's. Looking back I could have probably just swapped the barbs out for the MFL's not the entire shut-off/check valve.

And why a HP gauge at the end of the secondarys.

If you look at my first diagram I was thinking that I could use the high pressure regulator along with a dual secondary regulator to supply 3 kegs at different pressures. This was before I knew that the secondary regulators are low pressure only. I was thinking that the full pressure from the tank could pass through the secondary regulator to the gauge at the end.

I run a dual gauge primary off the tank (set at 30 psi) to a 6 gauge taprite. Each gauge has it's own shutoff valve. Same principal in a 2 or 3 gauge setup.

I'll probably keep mine at 40psi for sealing kegs, personal preference.

 

[gnef]

What you can do is keep your primary regulator set at 40 psi with a Wye on the outlet, one part going to your 3 gang secondary regulator, and the other for sealing kegs.

Alternatively, if your secondary regulators will be in a place easy to access, you can actually use the bypass on the last secondary to add a ball valve there and then attach a line to use for sealing kegs off of that.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

View attachment 551658
Not sure why you're looking at all the shutoff valves. And why a HP gauge at the end of the secondarys.
I run a dual gauge primary off the tank (set at 30 psi) to a 6 gauge taprite. Each gauge has it's own shutoff valve. Same principal in a 2 or 3 gauge setup.

Sweet setup, man. A simple question: are each of those regulators set to a different pressure? I have a much simpler setup. Dual primary regulators off the tank. One pressure set for serving, one for carbing. The carbing keg is set "on deck" so I always have 2 kegs serving, and 1 carbing. I *could* burst carb at a higher pressure. However, since it takes me forever to drink a keg, I have never set either of the regulators at anything but serving pressure. In truth for my usage, the redundant regulator is not needed.

 

[Konadog]

I run a single regulator on my tank on the outside of the kegerator, piped into a 4 secondary regulator manifold with one HI pressure (tank regulator pressure) inside of the kegerator.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

I run a single regulator on my tank on the outside of the kegerator, piped into a 4 secondary regulator manifold with one HI pressure (tank regulator pressure) inside of the kegerator.

View attachment 552132

Sooo.... the tubing from the tank to regulator manifold input is tank pressure? I thought that run always had to be hard pipe, although I'm not a plumber, much less a kegging expert. My regulators are both attached to the tank via hardpipe which physically sits in the keezer.

 

[gnef]

No, for him it must be the regulated pressure from the primary regulator attached to his tank.

For tank pressure, there are high pressure whips you can buy to wall mount your primary regulators if you want. They tend to be spendy for what they are though.

 

[Konadog]

Primary is on the tank outside, set for 35psi feeding the 4 secondary regulators inside. Each can be set to anything below 35psi, and one unregulated connection (same as primary regulator psi). I use that one for burst carbonation.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I ran tubing from the main regulator to a secondary regulator mounted inside the refrigerator. This way I can force carbonate new kegs at 35 psi while still being able to serve from other kegs at 12 psi. Works like a charm and definitely a worthwhile addition to any kegging system.

 

[Smellyglove]

I have two two-way splitters with duckbill-valves built into them. The first is sitting straight on the co2-flask. Splitting one way to the fridge, second way just to a stump with a QD. Then I have an extension hose with QD, and then also a short stump with a gas-ball lock coupler, and also one which is a cheapo regulator with QD's on both sides of it.

So I can just attatch the extension + the ball lock and force carb, or extension + regulator + ball lock and push star san between kegs without wasting co2, since the regulator takes down the pressure.

The other line from the first splitter is feeding the second splitter, which is inside the fridge. One of the lines feeds a 4-way secondary regulator, and the other line is just a short hose with a ball lock, so I can attach this to any keg in the fridge, while also connecting the "stump-line" from the first splitter to my CPF, and CPF under high pressure. Primary regulator sits at 2 bar at all times.

This way I don't have to take a line from inside the fridge to do stuff outside of the fridge.

 

[SEndorf]

Sweet setup, man. A simple question: are each of those regulators set to a different pressure? I have a much simpler setup. Dual primary regulators off the tank. One pressure set for serving, one for carbing. The carbing keg is set "on deck" so I always have 2 kegs serving, and 1 carbing. I *could* burst carb at a higher pressure. However, since it takes me forever to drink a keg, I have never set either of the regulators at anything but serving pressure. In truth for my usage, the redundant regulator is not needed.

Thanks !
I used to have the CO2, regulators and manifolds (everything) inside the keezer.
Then I got a wild hair to move it all out. Admittedly, a regulator for each tap is really not necessary, but I did it anyway.
The flexibility is nice. Each regulator is set slightly different. I sometimes have a commercial keg in there if homebrew makes room with low psi just to push it out. Then I'll usually have one carbing, and the rest at serving psi. I have noticed differences in my kegs requiring slightly different pressures. Not sure why since each keg is thoroughly disassembled and cleaned before re-use.
The only change I have not gotten around to yet, is adding a manifold off one of the regulators for the beer gun. I don't use the gun much, but it would make bottling quite a bit easier.

 

[daphatgrant]

Thanks for all the input guys!

This is what I settled on

 

[Konadog]

Exactly how I have it except with 4 secondary regulators.

 

[mattdee1]

Sorry to thread-mine here, but this thread seems like a good place to ask my question and it might help somebody else looking for the same info.

I'm brand new to kegging, just bought all my stuff, and have assembled a kegerator. Right now it's all kind of "dry fit" together; I just need to tighten all the fittings and put some beer in the kegs.

Although my system is a converted fridge rather than a freezer, the basic setup from a gas flow schematic standpoint is almost exactly the same as this one posted earlier:

I run a single regulator on my tank on the outside of the kegerator, piped into a 4 secondary regulator manifold with one HI pressure (tank regulator pressure) inside of the kegerator.

View attachment 552132

Without realizing the implications, I accidentally ordered the Taprite secondary regulator bank in a configuration that has a 5/16" pass-through barb fitting on the side opposite the inlet, when I probably should have ordered it with that hole plugged (which was an option). I realize I could probably change it myself but in researching it, it sounds like these Taprite secondaries are extremely difficult to disassemble due to thread adhesives, etc. and I just don't want to risk damaging a $300 piece of kit.

I decided I might as well take the flaw and turn it into a feature by using that pass-through on the secondary as a general purpose 30-40psi line for carbonating, purging, whatever. I initially assumed I could just pick up an in-line shut-off valve with 5/16" barbs on BOTH ends so I could hang a line off that pass-through (without having to change any fittings on the secondary) and keep it safely shut off when not in use, but I can't find such a valve to save my freaking life, so I gave up.

In the picture above it's kind of hard to see for sure, but it almost looks like he has a ball-lock QD line hanging off the pass-through with no shut-off valve. Am I seeing that correctly? Can the ball-lock QD hold the 30-40psi without leaking, and only flow gas when attached to a post? Is that asking for trouble? Inquiring noobs must know. Thanks, cheers

 

[Smellyglove]

I run a single regulator on my tank on the outside of the kegerator, piped into a 4 secondary regulator manifold with one HI pressure (tank regulator pressure) inside of the kegerator.

View attachment 552132

Why don't you go 3/16" on the lines? You'd see way less clutter because of hoses. ball-lock -> FFL-3/8" + 3/8"-3/16" stem adaptor 3/16"line - and 3/16" - 3/8" on again onto the taps.

 

[Konadog]

In the picture above it's kind of hard to see for sure, but it almost looks like he has a ball-lock QD line hanging off the pass-through with no shut-off valve. Am I seeing that correctly? Can the ball-lock QD hold the 30-40psi without leaking, and only flow gas when attached to a post? Is that asking for trouble? Inquiring noobs must know. Thanks, cheers

Funny, I did the exact same thing.

I do have a valve that I was going to put in place of the barb fitting, but I just haven't done it yet as I heard the same thing "it's difficult to take apart". As for the keg gas coupler holding pressure, so far so good. I'm not sure what there rated for, but I bet it's the same as the gas line.

 

[mattdee1]

Funny, I did the exact same thing.

I do have a valve that I was going to put in place of the barb fitting, but I just haven't done it yet as I heard the same thing "it's difficult to take apart". As for the keg gas coupler holding pressure, so far so good. I'm not sure what there rated for, but I bet it's the same as the gas line.

Thanks. If you don't mind me asking, how long have you been running that set up without issue?

I'm not so much concerned about the gas coupler rating, as I've no doubt that the rating is appropriate for the line pressures in question, so long as we do not try to use the coupler for something it was not intended for. In other words, it's not clear to me whether or not the couplers are meant to be used as, essentially, stand-in shut-offs that sit under pressure indefinitely while not connected to a keg. Kind of like on my garden hose, I've got a hand-held sprayer that "more or less" holds water pressure when not opened, but I certainly wouldn't want to use it as my last wall of defense against leaking water, so I shut it off at the spigot.

 

[Konadog]

It's been in service 13 months now, 16 kegs and counting have passed thru the taps

I never even thought about the coupler failing or leaking. Now you have me thinking I have to plan on installing my valve. Now I also only keep the line at 35 PSI, and not 50 PSI but I see your point.