Help! Hoping you guys might be able to help me isolate what to correct after missing OG on my 3rd all grain batch this past weekend.
I was doing an Orange Cascade APA off the top 100 list from this site actually - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/cascades-orange-pale-ale.84558/
I plugged the recipe in BeerSmith and tweaked it a little to lower IBU's (they calculated higher than the recipe on the site) and used a little extra fresh orange zest. I was really pumped to brew this batch after already doing a Citra IPA and a Bavarian Heffeweizen on my cooler all grain setup (12gal mash cooler , 7 gal HLT cooler, 8 gal Megapot, Edelmetall burner). Both of those brews worked out great. I hit my targets on both and they fermented well and should be killer beers by the time they are done conditioning. Learned some things I wanted to improve - PH (use Brunwater instead of BS calc), sparge longer, etc.. I use distilled water and build my own profile.
Here's the steps I followed from Beersmith -
Cascade / Orange APA
American Pale Ale (18 B)
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.74 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 5.99 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 5.00 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Date: 19 Oct 2019
Equipment: 2019 All Grain - Large 12 Gal Cooler - 8 Gal Megapot - 7 Gal HLT
Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.4 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:
Prepare for Brewing
Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU Volume
9 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 81.8 % 0.70 gal
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3 9.1 % 0.08 gal
1 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 4 9.1 % 0.08 gal
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 15.07 qt of water at 166.3 F 152.0 F 60 min
Mash Out Add 7.70 qt of water at 205.3 F 168.0 F 10 min
Amt Name Type # %/IBU Volume
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 5 17.6 IBUs -
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 6 - -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 11.6 IBUs -
2.50 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 10.0 mins) Spice 8 - -
1.00 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 mins) Spice 9 - -
Steeped Hops
Amt Name Type # %/IBU Volume
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0 min, 194.4 F Hop 10 3.3 IBUs -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0 min, 194.4 F Hop 11 3.3 IBUs -
Fermentation Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU Volume
1.0 pkg House (Imperial Yeast #A01) Yeast 12 - -
I now realize I need to be taking gravity readings pre boil, and post boil to catch this sooner. I had the grains milled by Northern Brewer on purchase. They seemed okay. The Vienna and Crystal malt were prepackaged crushed, a coarser grind than the Maris Otter, but overall the crush seemed okay. However, I'm still not experienced in these details.
I mashed in and temp on my thermapen was 155-157. So i stirred and let it sit for 10-15 minutes or so until I was getting 152-153 readings then sealed it up for the 60 minutes. One thing I've been noticing is that the dial thermometer on the mash cooler is always way lower than my pen. It shows mid to upper 140's.. so its 10 degrees lower. I know the dial thermometers are not as accurate as digital so I always go by my thermapen.
I forgot to heat my sparge water before preparing the mash out water, so I let the mash sit for another 20 minutes or more while prepping that and the mash out water (brew day beers and visitors complicated things). So overall I probably mashed for 90 minutes rather than 60. I recirculated for a good 10 minutes, until the wort was very clear, then drained the mash down to an inch or two above the grain bed before starting the sparge.
I sparged for about 18-20 minutes total, trying to drag it as slowly as possible. This is one area I'm still confused on. When BS calculates only 2.7 gallons sparge. How can i possibly sparge for 45 mins or more as some people claim you should do?
My volumes were also fairly accurate. I'm always skeptical of the boil off estimations because I don't think I boil off that much, if any, in 60 minutes on my setup. I stopped running off the wort from the mash at 6.7ish gal in the kettle. Probably could have ran more all the way to 7 gallons in the kettle, but the grains were visible and mash was mostly drained.
I did notice the wort was very clear and light, but I just kept going with my steps. I took a PH sample about 20 minutes into the mash, cooled it and it read 5.25, 5.24, 5.23 on calibrated PH meter so I was good there.
Going into the fermenter the volumes were still pretty good. I was tipping my kettle to drain the last bit over the 5 gallon mark on the fermenter (the whirlfloc had really compacted the trub) and I could have maybe got all the way to the 5.5 gal mark if squeezed it all from the trub, but I called it good. This is when i took the sample from the top of the fermenter.
I know my first thoughts are - temps (is my thermometer correct), grain crush (not fine enough), volumes off (too much water).. any ideas where to start? Now I'm second guessing my process altogether.
I ended up pulling wort out, adding almost a pound of DME and boiling, then returning to the fermenter just to get the OG up to around 1.047 - 4.8 for a more respectable ABV. Bummer.
I was doing an Orange Cascade APA off the top 100 list from this site actually - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/cascades-orange-pale-ale.84558/
I plugged the recipe in BeerSmith and tweaked it a little to lower IBU's (they calculated higher than the recipe on the site) and used a little extra fresh orange zest. I was really pumped to brew this batch after already doing a Citra IPA and a Bavarian Heffeweizen on my cooler all grain setup (12gal mash cooler , 7 gal HLT cooler, 8 gal Megapot, Edelmetall burner). Both of those brews worked out great. I hit my targets on both and they fermented well and should be killer beers by the time they are done conditioning. Learned some things I wanted to improve - PH (use Brunwater instead of BS calc), sparge longer, etc.. I use distilled water and build my own profile.
Here's the steps I followed from Beersmith -
Cascade / Orange APA
American Pale Ale (18 B)
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.74 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 5.99 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 5.00 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Date: 19 Oct 2019
Equipment: 2019 All Grain - Large 12 Gal Cooler - 8 Gal Megapot - 7 Gal HLT
Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.4 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:
Prepare for Brewing
- Create a yeast starter with 1.00 L of wort (3.38 oz dry malt extract)
- Clean and Prepare Brewing Equipment
- Total Water Needed: 8.39 gal
- Mash Water Acid: Brunwater calc 1.7 ml - Modified Pale Ale profile
Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU Volume
9 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 81.8 % 0.70 gal
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3 9.1 % 0.08 gal
1 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 4 9.1 % 0.08 gal
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 15.07 qt of water at 166.3 F 152.0 F 60 min
Mash Out Add 7.70 qt of water at 205.3 F 168.0 F 10 min
- Sparge Water Acid: None
- Fly sparge with 2.70 gal water at 168.0 F
- Add water to achieve boil volume of 6.74 gal
- Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.048 SG
Amt Name Type # %/IBU Volume
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 5 17.6 IBUs -
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 6 - -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 11.6 IBUs -
2.50 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 10.0 mins) Spice 8 - -
1.00 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 mins) Spice 9 - -
Steeped Hops
Amt Name Type # %/IBU Volume
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0 min, 194.4 F Hop 10 3.3 IBUs -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0 min, 194.4 F Hop 11 3.3 IBUs -
- Estimated Post Boil Vol: 5.99 gal and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.056 SG
- Cool wort to fermentation temperature
- Transfer wort to fermenter
- Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 5.50 gal
Fermentation Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU Volume
1.0 pkg House (Imperial Yeast #A01) Yeast 12 - -
- Measure Actual Original Gravity _1.037_ (Target: 1.056 SG)
- Measure Actual Batch Volume __5.10__ (Target: 5.50 gal)
I now realize I need to be taking gravity readings pre boil, and post boil to catch this sooner. I had the grains milled by Northern Brewer on purchase. They seemed okay. The Vienna and Crystal malt were prepackaged crushed, a coarser grind than the Maris Otter, but overall the crush seemed okay. However, I'm still not experienced in these details.
I mashed in and temp on my thermapen was 155-157. So i stirred and let it sit for 10-15 minutes or so until I was getting 152-153 readings then sealed it up for the 60 minutes. One thing I've been noticing is that the dial thermometer on the mash cooler is always way lower than my pen. It shows mid to upper 140's.. so its 10 degrees lower. I know the dial thermometers are not as accurate as digital so I always go by my thermapen.
I forgot to heat my sparge water before preparing the mash out water, so I let the mash sit for another 20 minutes or more while prepping that and the mash out water (brew day beers and visitors complicated things). So overall I probably mashed for 90 minutes rather than 60. I recirculated for a good 10 minutes, until the wort was very clear, then drained the mash down to an inch or two above the grain bed before starting the sparge.
I sparged for about 18-20 minutes total, trying to drag it as slowly as possible. This is one area I'm still confused on. When BS calculates only 2.7 gallons sparge. How can i possibly sparge for 45 mins or more as some people claim you should do?
My volumes were also fairly accurate. I'm always skeptical of the boil off estimations because I don't think I boil off that much, if any, in 60 minutes on my setup. I stopped running off the wort from the mash at 6.7ish gal in the kettle. Probably could have ran more all the way to 7 gallons in the kettle, but the grains were visible and mash was mostly drained.
I did notice the wort was very clear and light, but I just kept going with my steps. I took a PH sample about 20 minutes into the mash, cooled it and it read 5.25, 5.24, 5.23 on calibrated PH meter so I was good there.
Going into the fermenter the volumes were still pretty good. I was tipping my kettle to drain the last bit over the 5 gallon mark on the fermenter (the whirlfloc had really compacted the trub) and I could have maybe got all the way to the 5.5 gal mark if squeezed it all from the trub, but I called it good. This is when i took the sample from the top of the fermenter.
I know my first thoughts are - temps (is my thermometer correct), grain crush (not fine enough), volumes off (too much water).. any ideas where to start? Now I'm second guessing my process altogether.
I ended up pulling wort out, adding almost a pound of DME and boiling, then returning to the fermenter just to get the OG up to around 1.047 - 4.8 for a more respectable ABV. Bummer.