30 min vs 60 min Mash and infusion vs step mash

[Taco29wps]

In the Joy of Home Brewing it talks about the differences between the Infususion Mash and Step Mash processes. I was wondering your view on the subject. (whom ever is reading...lol) Many of the recipes call for a step mash infusion. Also, in the description of the Infusion mash is describes it as holding a mash temp for 30 to 60 mins. Has anyone here ever only mashed for 30 mins? I personally have not. I have only done a few AG batches but always mashed for 60 mins and mashed out with a gallon of boiling water and 10 min rest. (only because I seen a guy on youtube do it and he looked confident in his process...lol) I am interested in what others have found out during experimentation so I don't have to...

Thanks,

Taco

 

[Denny]

I have done a lot of step mashes, but I seldom do any more. I just haven't been able to see them make an appreciable difference in my beers. Because I'm usually interested in making the most fermentable wort I can, I mash for anywhere from 60-90 min.

 

[RainyDay]

I dont remember the thread, but there was one recently where the guy was only mashing for 20 minutes and getting good efficiency (not sure about color/flavor).

 

[Taco29wps]

Perhaps it's time for an experiment of my own. I was listening to BN the other day and one of the guys mentioned he was doing a batch and a fellow HBer told him that 30 min was good enough for the mash (I don't remember who the individuals were). I was intrigued but skeptical. So then I read in The Joy of Home Brewing that the Infusion mash requires a 30 to 60 min mash. None of the recipes I have ever read required a 30 min mash, however, some don't put a mash time which leads me to believe that it's open for interpretation...just some food for thought.

Taco

 

[Phunhog]

I still mash for 60 min but I have taken gravity readings via refractometer the whole time. I have found that most of the conversion is done in 30 minutes. The next 30 minutes I might get another 10%?? I think you could just add some extra grain and call it good after 30 minutes.

 

[Denny]

But the question becomes what kind f sugars are you getting in a short mash, assuming you get conversion. The longer you give the enzymes to work, the more they break down the less fermentable sugars into more fermentable oneas. If you do a short mash, I recommend you use Kai Troester's mash efficiency chart to see how you're really doing. And I'll try to dig up a link to an experiment done by BYO and BBR on mash time. IIRC, they found deficiencies in beers with short mashes.

The concept of homebrewers doing short mashes stems from hearing about commercial brewers who say they only do something like a 20 min. mash. And it may very well be true that they only h old the rest for that long, but on a commercial system mashing and sparging can each take an hour or more, most of which is spent near or at conversion temps.

 

[pjj2ba]

I past years I've helped my wife with the labs for her class and we've done some experiments looking at how age affects convertability. For the freshest malts (ground to a powder, husks removed), conversion in 15 min. (as judged by iodine test) was not a problem. We've had two yr old malt (stored in a powdered state) convert just fine

This year I'm teaching the course and I'm hoping to find enough water baths to test the affect of temperature on conversion rate. I want to have the students do the different temps all at the same time for the best results.

 

[Double_D]

I started shortening my mash times after I spent a day with the brewmaster at Big Dog's here in town. He mashed for about 20 min and then vorlaufed for about ten minutes before sparging. And that was in an unheated mash tun.

 

[Phunhog]

But the question becomes what kind f sugars are you getting in a short mash, assuming you get conversion. The longer you give the enzymes to work, the more they break down the less fermentable sugars into more fermentable oneas. If you do a short mash, I recommend you use Kai Troester's mash efficiency chart to see how you're really doing. And I'll try to dig up a link to an experiment done by BYO and BBR on mash time. IIRC, they found deficiencies in beers with short mashes.

The concept of homebrewers doing short mashes stems from hearing about commercial brewers who say they only do something like a 20 min. mash. And it may very well be true that they only h old the rest for that long, but on a commercial system mashing and sparging can each take an hour or more, most of which is spent near or at conversion temps.

That's a great point! I know in my set up I usually do a sach. rest for 60 minutes, lauter, and batch sparge. That means my grain is sitting at conversion temps for almost 90 minutes...I don't usually mash out. If I were to only hold my sach. rest for 30 minutes the grain bed would still be sitting at conversion temps for an hour. I will have to try that someday...but not today since I am brewing up Denny's famous Bourbon Vanilla Porter!!

 

[Nightshade]

I mash for 45 minutes which seems to work well as the temps remain right where I want them during that period.

I have played with 60 minute mash and saw no improvement in efficiency but haven't played with shorter times as of yet. Due to the volume in my mash tun I am not sure I would want to experiment with less than 30 minutes, but that may just be paranoia on my part. If it were my grain and equipment I would test a 20 minute mash just to see what happens.

 

[diS]

And I'll try to dig up a link to an experiment done by BYO and BBR on mash time. IIRC, they found deficiencies in beers with short mashes.

That would be great.

 

[diS]

This could be it:
http://media.libsyn.com/media/basic...om/media/basicbrewing/bbr02-10-11mashtime.mp3

Kai"s note on experiment:
http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2011/03/04/conversion-progress-in-a-single-infusion-mash/

 

[microbusbrewery]

With respect to step versus single infusion, when I was at my nephews wedding, I was talking with Victor Novak the brewmaster at TAPS Fish House about it. He's won numerous medals at the GABF and other events. He said he used to do step mashes for certain styles but he's since switched to infusion mashes for everything. He said a step mash wasn't worth the trouble as there was no discernable difference in the finished product.

 

[Denny]

With respect to step versus single infusion, when I was at my nephews wedding, I was talking with Victor Novak the brewmaster at TAPS Fish House about it. He's won numerous medals at the GABF and other events. He said he used to do step mashes for certain styles but he's since switched to infusion mashes for everything. He said a step mash wasn't worth the trouble as there was no discernable difference in the finished product.

That's pretty much what I decided, too.

 

[Taco29wps]

Thanks everyone for your input. What I have decided to do is...my own experiment. I will just pick a not so expensive batch to try it on. Time could be lost, yes. But, in reality, it will still make beer. Hopefully it won't be bad. If nothing else I will serve it to drunk friends that are trying to drink up my HB.

Cheers!

Taco