3 Infections in a row. Need new fermentation vessels

[Goyagon]

Hi I’ve recently come from a break from brewing and my first 3 batches are infected. After the first infected batch I bleached the crap out of my plastic 6 gal buckets PBW and used Iodophor. It seems it wasn’t enough though and I had 3 small but still damaging infections. I believe the problem comes from scratches in these plastic buckets as the infection happened during primary. I’m going to purchase some new fermentation vessels but I was wondering about PET Carboys and whether they are scratch resistant.

Are there any other alternatives? Glass carboys are hard to clean and ss is very expensive

 

[Bigdaddyale]

If you're using the lids that come with the plastic buckets make sure to clean and sanitize the rubber gasket inside the lids.

 

[Toxxyc]

If you soaked and sanitized the fermenters properly, I'm almost willing to put money on it and say that the infection didn't come from microscratches in the fermenter. There must be another reason. What's the time you let the wort sit between the boil (post-cooldown) and pitching your yeast? What's your process like, and what yeasts do you use? Also, what infections are you tasting? Babyvomit?

 

[Miraculix]

If you soaked and sanitized the fermenters properly, I'm almost willing to put money on it and say that the infection didn't come from microscratches in the fermenter. There must be another reason. What's the time you let the wort sit between the boil (post-cooldown) and pitching your yeast? What's your process like, and what yeasts do you use? Also, what infections are you tasting? Babyvomit?

I literally went just through the same hustle as op, tried to soak, clean, sanitise, etc... Infection stayed.

Bought a new bucket, infection gone.

 

[Toxxyc]

Interesting. I would love to see how deep the gashes in the fermenter's side is that carry the infections, to be honest.

 

[Miraculix]

There were mgcl2 flakes stored in my bucket previously, so it didn't surprise me that there were scratches.

But what I would like to see is which badass bug survived the bleach and the wvp soak and the star San.

The Chuck Norris bug?

 

[Toxxyc]

LOL that's why I'm saying I doubt it's from there. I know how long I soak my fermenter in sanitiser before brewing (usually a few days at least), so anything surviving that must be really, really nasty, or it comes from elsewhere.

 

[Miraculix]

LOL that's why I'm saying I doubt it's from there. I know how long I soak my fermenter in sanitiser before brewing (usually a few days at least), so anything surviving that must be really, really nasty, or it comes from elsewhere.

They just need a few layers of cells surrounding them, being the last layer in the crack or scratch. The liquid won't reach them. Heat would do the job! But it's hard to boil a plastic bucket

 

[Toxxyc]

I guess that makes sense. Those must be some bad gashes then. I don't scrub my fermenter, I just wash it with a soft brush at worst. Usually I just wash it out using my hand, wedding ring removed. I have no scratches on the inside - yet.

 

[El Nino]

how are glass carboys hard to clean? I just soak them overnight in PBW and rinse them out the next day. Never had to brush one or anything, super easy.

 

[bracconiere]

They just need a few layers of cells surrounding them, being the last layer in the crack or scratch. The liquid won't reach them. Heat would do the job! But it's hard to boil a plastic bucket

i use my plastic fermenters for sparge water...fill it up with 180-190f water, put the lid on. Then let it sit till the temp comes down to ~168f.

 

[kh54s10]

Glass carboys are heavy even when empty, slippery when wet and dangerous. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/broken-glass-carboy-horror-stories-compendium.376523/

I have PET Better Bottles and buckets. Nothing abrasive is ever used in cleaning them. Oxyclean or generic soak, and wipe with a soft dish towel is all I do. I sanitize with Starsan for only a few minutes before the wort goes in. I have never had an infection in 8 years.

 

[kh54s10]

i use my plastic fermenters for sparge water...fill it up with 180-190f water, put the lid on. Then let it sit till the temp comes down to ~168f.

That temperature will definitely warp a PET bottle. Ask me how I know!!!!

 

[bracconiere]

That temperature will definitely warp a PET bottle. Ask me how I know!!!!

i think my fermenters are HDEPE...or something like that, but they don't warp...lol

 

[passedpawn]

i use my plastic fermenters for sparge water...fill it up with 180-190f water, put the lid on. Then let it sit till the temp comes down to ~168f.

 

[bracconiere]

i see you have one fermenter that still needs to be pasteurized! i remember once it was snowing, so i had the brilliant idea to just put the still hot wort in my glass carboy...

 

[RPh_Guy]

I use Fermonsters (PET).
Fully transparent. Wide mouth. Seals well. Lightweight. Durable. Inexpensive. Ported for a spigot = easy sampling, easy transfer.

Don't heat over 125°F

 

[passedpawn]

i see you have one fermenter that still needs to be pasteurized! i remember once it was snowing, so i had the brilliant idea to just put the still hot wort in my glass carboy...

That was my buddy Jon's fermentors. I've had my own share of bad ideas. I put hot wort into a glass carboy then put the carboy into the cold, January pool. Yea, ended as expected.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I use Fermonsters (PET).
Fully transparent. Wide mouth. Seals well. Lightweight. Durable. Inexpensive. Ported for a spigot = easy sampling, easy transfer.

Don't heat over 125°F

Also, the mouth is wide enough that I can put my entire arm inside to wipe them out, and adding whole fruit is easy-peasy. I have three of the big ones 7 gallon ones, and they are great.

The only thing I don't like is the lid gasket - watch the youtube video on how to put it it. The one they include does indeed fit, but there is a trick to it.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I too use the fermonster. I love that its light weight and it can stand upside down on its own to drain if needed. I just soak it clean or use a soft sponge. I also use PET carboys. Never had any issues, they aren't expensive and won't cut your arm or leg off if dropped.

 

[passedpawn]

I have the big mouth bubblers. No complaints. I'd probably buy the fermonsters (with spigot) though next time. Lid makes more sense.

 

[Goyagon]

So thanks for all the replies, before I begin my brewing process I will note that I have visible scratches on the bottom of my bucket not just small abrasive scratches. I also do not take out the little gasket and sanitize it separately. I also read in another thread that crushing your grain near ure fermenters can cause infections from the malt dust.


First I soak for 30 mins in hot pbw. For the 2nd and third batches I soaked in bleach before soaking in pbw.
While the beer is brewing I soak in iodophor. I’ll skip the process before boil, but after boiling I put my wort chiller in connected to my hose. Put the lid on and let it chill down to 75 for about 30-45 mins. Then I just pour the chilled wort into the fermentation bucket letting it aerate a little pitch yeast and airlock it.

I’m pretty sure my old buckets should be replaced though and I kinda of want opinions on pet carboys. Are the superior in any way besides permeability to HDPE buckets? Should I also get a jet cleaner? I don’t always have time to soak overnight or sanitize overnight so this seems like a good idea.

The taste of the beer is not offputting but I notice a slight pellicle after the 2 weeks and 2 of them tasted slightly sour. I could save them but I don’t like sours enough to drink 5 gal of them.

 

[bracconiere]

That was my buddy Jon's fermentors. I've had my own share of bad ideas. I put hot wort into a glass carboy then put the carboy into the cold, January pool. Yea, ended as expected.

a 'floater'...lol

 

[Bigdaddyale]

So thanks for all the replies, before I begin my brewing process I will note that I have visible scratches on the bottom of my bucket not just small abrasive scratches. I also do not take out the little gasket and sanitize it separately. I also read in another thread that crushing your grain near ure fermenters can cause infections from the malt dust.


First I soak for 30 mins in hot pbw. For the 2nd and third batches I soaked in bleach before soaking in pbw.
While the beer is brewing I soak in iodophor. I’ll skip the process before boil, but after boiling I put my wort chiller in connected to my hose. Put the lid on and let it chill down to 75 for about 30-45 mins. Then I just pour the chilled wort into the fermentation bucket letting it aerate a little pitch yeast and airlock it.

I’m pretty sure my old buckets should be replaced though and I kinda of want opinions on pet carboys. Are the superior in any way besides permeability to HDPE buckets? Should I also get a jet cleaner? I don’t always have time to soak overnight or sanitize overnight so this seems like a good idea.

The taste of the beer is not offputting but I notice a slight pellicle after the 2 weeks and 2 of them tasted slightly sour. I could save them but I don’t like sours enough to drink 5 gal of them.

I had problems and found out the gaskets was the cause. Once I pulled the gasket and cleaned and sanitized -no more infections.

 

[passedpawn]

a 'floater'...lol

Shattered into the pool.

 

[BarleyPopBrewer]

I bought a new Spike Flex and haven't looked back. https://spikebrewing.com/products/flex. There is nothing that compares to fermenting in stainless.

 

[bracconiere]

I bought a new Spike Flex and haven't looked back. https://spikebrewing.com/products/flex. There is nothing that compares to fermenting in stainless.

looks nice, but for $250, i can get a couple red heads, and a lifetime membership to HBT!

 

[kh54s10]

Stainless is nice but I have had as many as 7 beers and wines fermenting at one time..... My PET bottles and buckets cost less than $240 total.

To have 7 fermenters going at one time would cost $1750 in Spike Flexes!!!!

 

[Goyagon]

Anyone know if iodophor stains PET like it does HDPE

 

[Toxxyc]

Iodophor will stain anything if it sits long enough. It's iodine, and that stains everything. Works like a charm, but man I hate that stain. StarSan (or it's generic variants) is what I use now.

 

[IslandLizard]

So thanks for all the replies, before I begin my brewing process I will note that I have visible scratches on the bottom of my bucket not just small abrasive scratches. I also do not take out the little gasket and sanitize it separately. I also read in another thread that crushing your grain near ure fermenters can cause infections from the malt dust.


First I soak for 30 mins in hot pbw. For the 2nd and third batches I soaked in bleach before soaking in pbw.
While the beer is brewing I soak in iodophor. I’ll skip the process before boil, but after boiling I put my wort chiller in connected to my hose. Put the lid on and let it chill down to 75 for about 30-45 mins. Then I just pour the chilled wort into the fermentation bucket letting it aerate a little pitch yeast and airlock it.

I’m pretty sure my old buckets should be replaced though and I kinda of want opinions on pet carboys. Are the superior in any way besides permeability to HDPE buckets? Should I also get a jet cleaner? I don’t always have time to soak overnight or sanitize overnight so this seems like a good idea.

The taste of the beer is not offputting but I notice a slight pellicle after the 2 weeks and 2 of them tasted slightly sour. I could save them but I don’t like sours enough to drink 5 gal of them.

How did the bottom get scratched? Were they used for other purposes? How deep and rough are the scratches? Good scrubbing and thorough sanitation should be able to get them sanitary enough for beer, unless...

The lids, the groove mainly, are bug traps. It's essential to clean everything that touches your chilled wort and beer thoroughly, followed by rinsing, then sanitizing (Starsan). Yes, the rubber grommet and hole in the lid are part of that system, as is the airlock.

Grain dust will settle on everything, but should not get inside your fermenters, until... you open them. To prevent that, before you open, clean underneath the lid rim by spraying or mopping with a washcloth soaked in Starsan. Then clean and sanitize before replacing. Mop the bucket rim too. I'm a strong proponent of mopping with Starsan, not just spraying.

Do you open the fermenters frequently, to take samples and so? There are better ways.

I still use plastic brew buckets from 2013. No problems, ever.
That said, those Fermonsters look like a very viable alternative, if treated right. That spigot needs some attention though.

 

[Goyagon]

How did the bottom get scratched? Were they used for other purposes? How deep and rough are the scratches? Good scrubbing and thorough sanitation should be able to get them sanitary enough for beer, unless...

The lids, the groove mainly, are bug traps. It's essential to clean everything that touches your chilled wort and beer thoroughly, followed by rinsing, then sanitizing (Starsan). Yes, the rubber grommet and hole in the lid are part of that system, as is the airlock.

Grain dust will settle on everything, but should not get inside your fermenters, until... you open them. To prevent that, before you open, clean underneath the lid rim by spraying or mopping with a washcloth soaked in Starsan. Then clean and sanitize before replacing. Mop the bucket rim too. I'm a strong proponent of mopping with Starsan, not just spraying.

Do you open the fermenters frequently, to take samples and so? There are better ways.

I still use plastic brew buckets from 2013. No problems, ever.
That said, those Fermonsters look like a very viable alternative, if treated right. That spigot needs some attention though.

I’m not sure how they got scratched as I only use them for homebrewing. Sometimes I use to aerate with a plastic mash paddle. But I stopped doing that. I bought 3 fermonsters and it’s 3 weeks in with no signs of infection so I think either the scratches or not sanitizing the lid was the problem.

 

[Miraculix]

I’m not sure how they got scratched as I only use them for homebrewing. Sometimes I use to aerate with a plastic mash paddle. But I stopped doing that. I bought 3 fermonsters and it’s 3 weeks in with no signs of infection so I think either the scratches or not sanitizing the lid was the problem.

I caught an infection again with my new bucket. Last batch, I dumped the unchilled wort directly into it (checked if the plastic can take boiling water beforehand), closed it and let it cool in a water bath over night.

Just opened it a tiny bit to pitch the yeast, bottled it yesterday, no infection.

If everything fails, boiling wort might do the trick.

 

[IslandLizard]

I’m not sure how they got scratched as I only use them for homebrewing.

Maybe they're not scratched, the infections coming from a different source.

As I've said before, the groove in the lid can be a bug trap, same for the rubber grommet, especially the space between the lid and grommet. I always remove the grommet for better, thorough cleaning, and really scrub/clean the lid's groove, as well as the top, having a very irregular surface.

You can't sanitize something that isn't clean.

I had saved the yeast cake from a previous NEIPA fermentation and removed the trub (dry hops mostly) by straining through a boiled and Starsanned fine mesh nylon hop bag. I had done that before, successfully. This time it grew an inch high pellicle within a few weeks, partially due to the fridge not being cold enough, overdue for its "periodic manual defrosting maintenance." Fooey Samsung!

Now I'm glad I didn't use that yeast for pitches, it would have likely infected those batches. I traced it back to not harvesting the yeast right away, after transfer, but leaving it in the bucket for a few more days, with the lid on loosely. Nope, don't do that!