250v vs 125/250v plugs

[HumulusHead]

Hello all,

Understanding plug types has probably been the hardest part of designing my electric brew rig.

So i have what is probably a sill question to the vets out there.

I have a NEMA L15-30 connector that I really want to use, because I got it for free. But according to http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?id=6813 its for 250v only.

I using this to connect from my gfci in the wall to my control panel. Would there be any worries that this connector is 250v only? Will it change my plans inside my control panel at all? Do I lose a leg of 125v?

See, silly questions, but I am not knowledgeable in this shocky substrate

 

[muhteeus]

Hello all,

Understanding plug types has probably been the hardest part of designing my electric brew rig.

So i have what is probably a sill question to the vets out there.

I have a NEMA L15-30 connector that I really want to use, because I got it for free. But according to http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?id=6813 its for 250v only.

I using this to connect from my gfci in the wall to my control panel. Would there be any worries that this connector is 250v only? Will it change my plans inside my control panel at all? Do I lose a leg of 125v?

See, silly questions, but I am not knowledgeable in this shocky substrate

These are voltage ratings. This means that the connector will safely isolate 250V between connectors. More voltage would cause a short, and then **** would get real !

So if your Voltage is less than or equal to the rating, it will work. You could use these with 24VDC, 5VDC, 88VAC, etc.

 

[andrewprime1]

I am not an expert, but here is what I think.

That receptor is four wire, so it has two 120v "hots" a neutral and a ground (H-H-N-G). If your system is running on 240 but you are going to need to pull 120v somewhere down the line you are good.

 

[HumulusHead]

This is very good news to my ears!

I guess I just dont understand what the benefit of a nema 14-30 would be then. Seems that they would do the exact same thing???

 

[ajdelange]

That plug/receptacle is intended for three phase 250V delta connected circuits in that it features X, Y, and Z phase connections and a ground. There is, however, no electrical reason it can not be used for biphase (L1, L2, Neutral and ground) or single phase (L1, Neutral, ground). If you were in an industrial setting where you had 3 phase equipment it would probably not be advisable to install an outlet of this type wired for biphase or single phase 120 as the chances that someone would accidentally plug in a piece of three phase gear would be pretty high. At home? Different story. If you do have a bunch of these wired biphase just be sure to be consistent in using Z for the neutral connection. I have no idea as to whether this violates code but I do know that generator manufacturers sell cord adapter sets for their equipment wired this way (L1 - X; L2 -Y, N - Z, G) so I assume it doesn't and I have biphase outlets in my brewery wired this way that the inspector didn't ding.

 

[HumulusHead]

That plug/receptacle is intended for three phase 250V delta connected circuits in that it features X, Y, and Z phase connections and a ground. There is, however, no electrical reason it can not be used for biphase (L1, L2, Neutral and ground) or single phase (L1, Neutral, ground). If you were in an industrial setting where you had 3 phase equipment it would probably not be advisable to install an outlet of this type wired for biphase or single phase 120 as the chances that someone would accidentally plug in a piece of three phase gear would be pretty high. At home? Different story. If you do have a bunch of these wired biphase just be sure to be consistent in using Z for the neutral connection. I have no idea as to whether this violates code but I do know that generator manufacturers sell cord adapter sets for their equipment wired this way (L1 - X; L2 -Y, N - Z, G) so I assume it doesn't and I have biphase outlets in my brewery wired this way that the inspector didn't ding.

I really appreciate this response. It makes perfect sense now!!!!!

Thanks AJ

I will make sure to wire the way you suggest too, at least this way I will have some sort of consistency. And I can then power my brewery from at least my garage and your place! ha

 

[augiedoggy]

dont forget you have these options too...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5mm-Dia-3...280?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4adbc34490

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-...762?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4adbb4081a

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-250V-23A...255?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4adbb5fe07

and this is a good deal...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/L14-30-Plug...991?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4696990f

 

[RichBenn]

The danger of using the "wrong" plug is someone (in the future?) could plug it into the wrong receptacle, although, as Adelange has pointed out, this is not super likely and this connector exceeds voltage and current ratings on your project.

I would, however, consider just using a waterproof strain relief on the cord into the control box or use a 120V connector set. Neutrik makes some nice waterproof connectors similar to the ones already mentioned. It's never a bad idea to do things correctly and may eliminate some future owner confusion if you ever sell it. mug:

(I too get tempted to cut corners all the time)

*** edit - I may have missed something - is this a 120V or 240 V control? I was thinking you were doing 120V in what I worded above.

 

[augiedoggy]

I used to suggest the same thing but after a year of brewing I have come to realize there really is no point... if one has and uses a properly sized exhaust hood there will be no issue with the steam covering the control panel if its mounted off to the side. I even have a cooling fan sucking ambient air into my panel for ssr heat sink cooling. The liquid is so hot or sticky i do not tend to ever get the "wet hands" I worried about . If I do I dry them off so everything I touch doesnt become sticky... and if there was some sort of emergency that's what we have the emergency stops or at least the power switch for right? Not to mention the GFCI when all else fails...


That said Two of the options I listed were waterproof however the military connector was not. but if you plan on sending you panel out and paying to have it UL listed for some reason then you certainly want the standard Nema connectors otherwise I honestly dont see the practical point in paying all that extra for big bulky connectors.. Its not "cutting corners" unless its truly not practical to the application right? if it meets all the criteria that it needs to whats the problem? they are certainly not going to be "mistakenly plugged into the wrong outlet" by new owners... proprietary connectors are a win win here for this proprietary application.

Are we going under the fear that if its not UL listed then its not safe? If thats the case then most of the components in the panel are suspect... I dont believe even the coveted auber pids here are UL listed....neither are most of the switches and indicators.. and I would think a live switch would be much more likely to see a wet hand than the outlets right? I dont unplug mine until everything is off and I'm cleaning up and even then its only my boil kettle at that point that even gets unplugged.

Just my opinion, I am open to constructive criticism.

 

[RichBenn]

I used to suggest the same thing but after a year of brewing I have come to realize there really is no point... if one has and uses a properly sized exhaust hood there will be no issue with the steam covering the control panel if its mounted off to the side. I even have a cooling fan sucking ambient air into my panel for ssr heat sink cooling. The liquid is so hot or sticky i do not tend to ever get the "wet hands" I worried about . If I do I dry them off so everything I touch doesnt become sticky... and if there was some sort of emergency that's what we have the emergency stops or at least the power switch for right? Not to mention the GFCI when all else fails...


That said Two of the options I listed were waterproof however the military connector was not. but if you plan on sending you panel out and paying to have it UL listed for some reason then you certainly want the standard Nema connectors otherwise I honestly dont see the practical point in paying all that extra for big bulky connectors.. Its not "cutting corners" unless its truly not practical to the application right? if it meets all the criteria that it needs to whats the problem? they are certainly not going to be "mistakenly plugged into the wrong outlet" by new owners... proprietary connectors are a win win here for this proprietary application.

Are we going under the fear that if its not UL listed then its not safe? If thats the case then most of the components in the panel are suspect... I dont believe even the coveted auber pids here are UL listed....neither are most of the switches and indicators.. and I would think a live switch would be much more likely to see a wet hand than the outlets right? I dont unplug mine until everything is off and I'm cleaning up and even then its only my boil kettle at that point that even gets unplugged.

Just my opinion, I am open to constructive criticism.

Not sure who you were posting in response to, but here are my thoughts.

The control panel, if kept away from the primary spill zone, probably does not require waterproof connectors. The boil pot is, I believe, in an area where any connections should be waterproof (or at least splash proof). In my own case, I have waterproof connections at the kettle with plug covers, which solves the splash issue where it's needed most and allows me to completely move the kettle for cleaning.

Interestingly, I just removed a defective hot tub controller - not waterproof in any way, 230V AMP connectors on the side, even though there are hundreds of gallons of water nearby. Of course, this is not where human hands touch except during servicing. But I digress.

Were I to do it again, I would not have big plugs on the cables into the controller, but simply strain relieved(even waterproof ones are very cheap),but waterproof connectors at the kettles. I don't move the control panel around, but do move the pots around.

In terms of UL and the control panel, they are really only concerned with avoiding shock and fire, not caring much for what goes inside other than grounding. A grounded metal or approved plastic case accomodates that. They do care about the ins and outs, which is where fire and shock possibilities surface again. The cord and connectors are what's important to them.

 

[reynolds5520]

Assuming your panel is using H-H-N-G, then L1430 is the correct part.

As noted previously, your L1530 part is only intended for use on 3 phase systems. Can it be mis-wired to work, sure. But there are two very good reasons to use the right part and not the one you already have.

1. Somebody else ends up owning your panel (or you take it on the road) and plugs it in with a part that fits. Instead of the internal components seeing the intended 120 volts hot to neutral, they get hit with the hot to hot voltage of the 3 phase service. Poof, out goes the smoke and no more brewing until it's fixed. Or maybe it's poof followed by flames.

2. Somebody else attempts to plug in some properly wired 3 phase equipment into your mis-wired receptacle. Best case, the equipment just doesn't work. Or maybe it ends in smoke again.

There's a reason there are so many different standard configurations. Each is for a specific combination of voltages and it is standardized so equipment can safely be moved. They aren't that expensive that non-standard wiring is justified.