1st Batch Sparge, Did I do this Right?

[Ravenshead]

For background, I have about 15 AG brews under my belt. I fly sparged all of them and had a pretty consistent efficiency of 62-65%. This weekend I tried batch sparging just to see what happened.

Here was my process:

1. Mashed with 15.5 qts (1.25 qts/lb) at 155 F for 60 min.
2. Added 1.6 gallons at 170 F and let sit for 10 min to settle the grain bed.
3. Vourlauffed (sp?) until clear (about 2 qts).
4. Opened the lauter tun valve to full open and let 'er rip into the BK. Took about 10 minutes.
5. Meanwhile, heated 3 gallons to 170 F for batch 2.
6. Added said 3 gallons to the MLT and stirred thoroughly. Let sit for 10 minutes to settle the grain bed.
7. Vourlauffed (sp?) again until clear (about 2 qts).
8. Opened the lauter tun valve to full open and let 'er rip into the BK. Took about 10 minutes.


At the end of the I expected an OG of about 1055 at 62% efficiency and 5 gallons. I got 4.5 gallons at 1045 for an effiency of around 50%.

Did my process cause my low efficiency? I use a 48 qt cooler with a copper manifold for my MLT.

 

[bob1852]

Step 2 isn't necessary unless you add hot enough water (boiling) to get the total grain bed up to ~170*F.

Because your adding all of the water at once (or twice if you double batch sparge), it needs to be hotter than 170 to get the bed up to 170. Most try to shoot for the 185 range....

Even with your process though, your efficiency shouldn't have been 50%. I'd look elswhere (crush, dough-balls, conversion efficiency, etc.)

 

[Beezy]

I do just that but I don't mash out. Getting 78-80% eff. Maybe check the crush? PH?

 

[Ravenshead]

I've been thinking the crush is the issue. That's why my fly sparge effiency is so low too.

I still didn't expect to lose 12 pts going from fly to batch sparging though. I really like the process from a time saving aspect.

BTW: I only did Step 2 to up my first batch volume to 3 gallons. It wasn't really meant to be a mash out but I took it as a bonus.

Edit: My post-boil pH is around 6.0. Is that high and does it make a difference since it's post boil?

 

[Carter5112]

Process seems pretty good to me. If you want to mash out, that's fine but as AZ_IPA said, you need to raise the whole grain bed to 170. For me (depending on grain bill) I add 190 - 195 degree water. I don't really "mashout" but just make that the temp of my first batch sparge infusion. 2nd infusion can be at 170 since grain bed should be raised.

I'd say you may have left some points in the mash tun. I usually double sparge with 6 gallons regardless and just adjust my grist ratio for the brew. Take gravity readings of each runoff and see if you're getting down to that 1010 range by the end. If your last runoff was 1025 or something, then you could sparge more, boil off more, and up that efficiency (brewhouse that is).

 

[Beezy]

I am not sure about the PH some older members will have to pipe in. I know it can be problematic but that's about it.

On the crush I just know since I started doing it myself and cranking it down my eff is now up over 80%. I am not exactly sure because I screwed up my pre-boil reading but I over shot on the last one by .01 it's getting to the point I will have to start adjusting my recipe to 80% or back off on the crush.

I do use 5.2 in my mash too. Some don't recommend it but I started getting good results when I started using it so I am afraid to leave it out. Getting ph strips so I can get to the bottom of it tho.

 

[Ravenshead]

Process seems pretty good to me. If you want to mash out, that's fine but as AZ_IPA said, you need to raise the whole grain bed to 170. For me (depending on grain bill) I add 190 - 195 degree water. I don't really "mashout" but just make that the temp of my first batch sparge infusion. 2nd infusion can be at 170 since grain bed should be raised.

I'd say you may have left some points in the mash tun. I usually double sparge with 6 gallons regardless and just adjust my grist ratio for the brew. Take gravity readings of each runoff and see if you're getting down to that 1010 range by the end. If your last runoff was 1025 or something, then you could sparge more, boil off more, and up that efficiency (brewhouse that is).

190-ish with the sparge, wow. I try to stay in the 170 to 180 level when I fly-sparge. I don't have reason not to go higher that I can think of, but why that high?

 

[Ravenshead]

Process seems pretty good to me. If you want to mash out, that's fine but as AZ_IPA said, you need to raise the whole grain bed to 170. For me (depending on grain bill) I add 190 - 195 degree water. I don't really "mashout" but just make that the temp of my first batch sparge infusion. 2nd infusion can be at 170 since grain bed should be raised.

I'd say you may have left some points in the mash tun. I usually double sparge with 6 gallons regardless and just adjust my grist ratio for the brew. Take gravity readings of each runoff and see if you're getting down to that 1010 range by the end. If your last runoff was 1025 or something, then you could sparge more, boil off more, and up that efficiency (brewhouse that is).

The last runoff was not 1025-ish--that was the combined pre-boil SG at a temp of around 137 F. Calculates to around 1041 at 60 F.

 

[bob1852]

190-ish with the sparge, wow. I try to stay in the 170 to 180 level when I fly-sparge. I don't have reason not to go higher that I can think of, but why that high?

Mainly because when you fly-sparge it takes a long time, so using 170-180 water will get your bed up to 170 by the time you're done fly sparging.

Because batch sparging is quick, you want to hit it with hotter water to get the bed up to 170 pretty much immediately.

 

[rjschroed]

Probably not the root of all your problems if you didn't, but it helps to stir after each addition when batch sparging.

 

[Paulgs3]

Mainly because when you fly-sparge it takes a long time, so using 170-180 water will get your bed up to 170 by the time you're done fly sparging.

Because batch sparging is quick, you want to hit it with hotter water to get the bed up to 170 pretty much immediately.

Thank you for this (and thanks to the OP for asking!). I batch sparged at 170 also (two AGs under my belt so far, I'm still wet behind the ears). I missed my grav by a few points, and this is probably why.

 

[azscoob]

I opened the valve all the way after vorlaufing on my first few batches, I got 60-ish (+/-) efficiency. I noticed that I was getting some grain bits into the kettle, so on subsequent batches I opened the valve no more than 50%, wort was clearer and my efficiency jumped into the low to mid 70s.

I started milling my own grain, draining slowly, split my sparge into two seperate sparges, stirring well and letting the bed settle before vorlaufing and draining. I am now at a solid 85% efficiency

 

[Beezy]

Not being smart, serious question = why 2 sparges? Getting 80 or so with one sparge...

 

[bob1852]

Not being smart, serious question = why 2 sparges? Getting 80 or so with one sparge...

The theory being a double rinse is better than a single rinse.

Often the example is used when washing a glass; it will be cleaner if you fill it half way, slosh, drain and repeat v. filling it full and dumping. However, if this were truly the case, a triple sparge should be used as that's what EPA recommends for rinsing out hazardous material containers.

More recent information has shown that a single sparge is basically as effective as double sparge, and if you know your system, you can make the minor changes in grain, if needed.

I think Denny said he only lost ~2 pts during a single sparge and for him, the time saved was more important than those points that could easily be adjusted for.

I single sparge now, the exception being if I'm doing a big 10-gallon batch of something and I can't fit all of the sparge in my MLT at once.

 

[Coldies]

Not being smart, serious question = why 2 sparges? Getting 80 or so with one sparge...

If your getting 80% then don't change a thing. For my system I found that I got better effeciency with 2 batch sparges. The thought is that you are collecting/rinsing all the sugar you can out of the grain with 2 batch sparges. I usually do 2, 2.5-3 gallon batch sparges.

** AZ_IPA beat me to it.**

 

[Ravenshead]

Probably not the root of all your problems if you didn't, but it helps to stir after each addition when batch sparging.

I did stir it. I'm thinking the higher sparge temp and maybe a slower runoff will take care of the problem. Eventually, I'll buy a mill but that's going to have to wait for X-mas.

 

[azscoob]

The theory being a double rinse is better than a single rinse.

Often the example is used when washing a glass; it will be cleaner if you fill it half way, slosh, drain and repeat v. filling it full and dumping. However, if this were truly the case, a triple sparge should be used as that's what EPA recommends for rinsing out hazardous material containers.

More recent information has shown that a single sparge is basically as effective as double sparge, and if you know your system, you can make the minor changes in grain, if needed.

I think Denny said he only lost ~2 pts during a single sparge and for him, the time saved was more important than those points that could easily be adjusted for.

I single sparge now, the exception being if I'm doing a big 10-gallon batch of something and I can't fit all of the sparge in my MLT at once.

I have been doing a lot of 10 gal batches, and is the reason I started splitting the sparge, now I do it for all my batches just to keep my process consistant.

I did stir it. I'm thinking the higher sparge temp and maybe a slower runoff will take care of the problem. Eventually, I'll buy a mill but that's going to have to wait for X-mas.

Wifey Claus brought me my mill for Christmas! :rockin:

 

[bob1852]

I have been doing a lot of 10 gal batches, and is the reason I started splitting the sparge, now I do it for all my batches just to keep my process consistant.

Very good point, and something I should have added:

I single sparge out of laziness and know that I won't get the exact same result as I would if I double sparge...

 

[Ravenshead]

Nice Wifey Claus. I hope mine will do the same (AKA not yell too much when it shows up under the tree unexpectedly).

 

[Beezy]

Thanks for the info guys. Yeah I am not changing anything with my system for a while. 3 batches in a row 78 and above. Happened after I got my mill fwiw. I am temped to try something big soon to see if I still get good eff. I have yet to do a starter but that's not a biggie.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I did stir it. I'm thinking the higher sparge temp and maybe a slower runoff will take care of the problem. Eventually, I'll buy a mill but that's going to have to wait for X-mas.

There's a thread on here about buying a cheap pasta maker or clay roller to make a really cheap grain mill.

Do a search for "Using a pasta maker to mill grain." About 20 bucks for a grain mill? Awesome.

 

[Beezy]

There's a thread on here about buying a cheap pasta maker or clay roller to make a really cheap grain mill.

Do a search for "Using a pasta maker to mill grain." About 20 bucks for a grain mill? Awesome.

You can find a Corona mill for not much more. I got mine given to me. It's awesome.

 

[Ravenshead]

There's a thread on here about buying a cheap pasta maker or clay roller to make a really cheap grain mill.

Do a search for "Using a pasta maker to mill grain." About 20 bucks for a grain mill? Awesome.

I've seen it. I even have most of the skills and HW needed to knurl the rollers. By the time I finish playing with it to make it work right I'm pretty sure it'll be cheaper just to buy a BC. That's especially true if you try to put $$ on my time. I'd spend hours just thinking about how to modify that clay roller much less how many I'd spend actually fixing it.