Second Brew, No Fermentation Instructions

Hey everyone! I just finished my second brew (15 hours since I pitched the yeast). I have added the brew profile below. I used a half-extract kit (steeped my own grains, everything else was provided).

The guidelines that came with the kit provide no information as to how long I should ferment. My first brew came out with a really sharp metallic aftertaste, and a friend who brews a lot mentioned I probably had not let it ferment long enough.

The last brew fermented 2 weeks in the bucket, and primed 2 weeks in the bottle, which I realize now was not long enough.

Current brew profile:
Hazelnut Brown Ale
O.G.: 1.050
Temp at Pitch: 78

Brown, Chocolate, Munich, and two Crystal Malts.

1.5oz Perle Hops (60 Min)
.25oz Perle Hops (45 Min)
.25oz Perle Hops (30 Min)
1.0 oz Saaz Hops (2 Min)

6.5lb LME
2tsp Hazelnut Extract

Wyeast 1056 American Ale Yeast

My plan is to ferment for 4 weeks, bottle for two. This is my extremely limited and uneducated guess, however, due to my problems last time.

Any thoughts on how long I should let it ferment?

A good rule of thumb is 3 weeks in bucket, 3 weeks in bottle. I do this with almost all my batches. Sometimes I leave them in the fermenter a little longer, or they need longer to carb though, but these are normally high gravity beers.

That sounds good. I get the feeling it's going to be unique to each batch, which is fine. I was worried I was missing something.

Get your temp down to 66 - 68! If you keep it up around 78 ish it will not taste good!

I'm new to brewing myself so I don't claim to have all of the answers. But I believe the metallic taste could also come from using too high concentration of sanitizing agents and/or not washing them out thoroughly enough. Also, did you use tap water and if so was it filtered? If you used tap water that might be a more likely culprit.

Lastly, I noticed you are using a bucket to ferment. Nothing wrong with that really but if you do decide to go much beyond 3 weeks you might want to consider using a secondary fermentor carboy after the primary fermentation is complete. I'd recommend checking out John Palmer's section on secondary fermenting.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter8-4.html

lazysunday said:

Hey everyone! I just finished my second brew (15 hours since I pitched the yeast). I have added the brew profile below. I used a half-extract kit (steeped my own grains, everything else was provided).

The guidelines that came with the kit provide no information as to how long I should ferment. My first brew came out with a really sharp metallic aftertaste, and a friend who brews a lot mentioned I probably had not let it ferment long enough.

The last brew fermented 2 weeks in the bucket, and primed 2 weeks in the bottle, which I realize now was not long enough.

Click to expand...

add a week to the fermentation, add a week to the bottling time, try to keep your temps a bit lower.

did you buy a new aluminum pot for your 1st brew or scrub the crap out of am old one till it was clean and shiny. you want to boil water in a new one or retain the gray/black layer of oxide on an old one.

I'm a newbie too, but shouldn't you have a final gravity to shoot for and ferment for however long it takes to reach that (and probably assume that should be three weeks-- that seems to be what every-one says everything should take...)?

Terminum said:

Lastly, I noticed you are using a bucket to ferment. Nothing wrong with that really but if you do decide to go much beyond 3 weeks you might want to consider using a secondary fermentor carboy after the primary fermentation is complete. I'd recommend checking out John Palmer's section on secondary fermenting.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter8-4.html

Click to expand...

That's from the first edition of "How to Brew". Both Palmer and Jamil have since concluded that, for homebrewers, secondary fermenting is normally not needed and there's no problem at all leaving the beer in the primary on the yeast a month (or even slightly longer). It's an issue for commercial brewing that uses large conical fermenters (think of the weight of hundreds of gallons of beer pressing down on the yeast), but not for us.

jphebbie2 said:

Get your temp down to 66 - 68! If you keep it up around 78 ish it will not taste good!

Click to expand...

+1. Next time shoot for getting your wort temp into the low-mid 60's before you pitch yeast.

Finally, if you are going to use liquid yeast, you'll want to begin making starters to get enough cells. Until you are set up to do that, it's better to use dry yeast so that you pitch enough cells to do the job.

Get your temp down to 66 - 68! If you keep it up around 78 ish it will not taste good!

Click to expand...

I did, the initial temp was just pitch temp, when all the racking was done and the airlock was secured it was at 70, and I am storing it in an upstairs closet with the thermostat set to 65. Normal room temp due to heat rising is usually 68ish.

I'm new to brewing myself so I don't claim to have all of the answers. But I believe the metallic taste could also come from using too high concentration of sanitizing agents and/or not washing them out thoroughly enough. Also, did you use tap water and if so was it filtered? If you used tap water that might be a more likely culprit.

Lastly, I noticed you are using a bucket to ferment. Nothing wrong with that really but if you do decide to go much beyond 3 weeks you might want to consider using a secondary fermentor carboy after the primary fermentation is complete. I'd recommend checking out John Palmer's section on secondary fermenting.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip! This being my second brew, I am slowly gathering gear. I have not yet purchased a carboy (plastic or glass?) just because its a bit expensive, and last brew didn't turn out well. I'd like to try and rule out process error before I start spending more money.

RE: Your water question, I am using tap water. I live in the Pacific Northwest, and got a water profile that was pretty pure. I am still learning all the science, but several brewers out here use straight tap water.

add a week to the fermentation, add a week to the bottling time, try to keep your temps a bit lower.

did you buy a new aluminum pot for your 1st brew or scrub the crap out of am old one till it was clean and shiny. you want to boil water in a new one or retain the gray/black layer of oxide on an old one.

Click to expand...

Awesome, thank you. I think that will be my plan, to add a week to both steps.

I purchased a brand new pot, and boiled 5 gal of water in it for 30 mins immediately after opening. Then I washed it (soap and water) and then sanitized with 2 gal of water prior to brewing. Another unfortunate misstep was not catching a small manufacture sticker on the bottom. The entire brew smelled like melting plastic sticker. I didnt think that would affect taste though... maybe I'm wrong.

I'm a newbie too, but shouldn't you have a final gravity to shoot for and ferment for however long it takes to reach that (and probably assume that should be three weeks-- that seems to be what every-one says everything should take...)?

Click to expand...

Good point. I am extremely gunshy when it comes to messing with it after brewing, due to contaminants. I own a cat, and while I am a relatively clean person, I would hate to toss 5 gallons because a lone cat hair settled in the brew.

That being said, how do you take your gravity readings? Do you just super-sanitize your hydrometer and dip it in every week?

+1. Next time shoot for getting your wort temp into the low-mid 60's before you pitch yeast.

Finally, if you are going to use liquid yeast, you'll want to begin making starters to get enough cells. Until you are set up to do that, it's better to use dry yeast so that you pitch enough cells to do the job.

Click to expand...

I appreciate the tip, I will try and get my wort temp low prior to pitching. Honestly, this brew was my attempt to follow directions exactly as they were on the sheet. Newbish, I know. However last brew was a simple Oatmeal stout. I cook a lot, and can improvise on the fly, so I assumed I would be able to just alter the brew ad-hoc without consequence.

I toasted the oats (the directions stated it was an optional step) in my disgusting oven for 30 mins, which could have also ruined things for me.

tl;dr: I am attempting to follow the recipe to the letter, to isolate any sanitation or process issues.

I definitely appreciate all the feedback! I am hoping that on my third brew, I will have the process down and be turning out beer as it was intended. A few more after that to learn the science, and I can move to all-grain, and begin experimenting with my own combinations.

BigFloyd said:

That's from the first edition of "How to Brew". Both Palmer and Jamil have since concluded that, for homebrewers, secondary fermenting is normally not needed and there's no problem at all leaving the beer in the primary on the yeast a month (or even slightly longer). It's an issue for commercial brewing that uses large conical fermenters (think of the weight of hundreds of gallons of beer pressing down on the yeast), but not for us.

Click to expand...

I see, I was under the impression that oxidation was just as much of a concern though. Buckets expose much more surface area than a topped-off carboy, not to mention they are theoretically more permeable to air since they are plastic. Didn't realize a month or longer was fine.

Getting slightly off topic but do you recommend buying the new John Palmer book?

lazysunday said:

I did, the initial temp was just pitch temp, when all the racking was done and the airlock was secured it was at 70, and I am storing it in an upstairs closet with the thermostat set to 65. Normal room temp due to heat rising is usually 68ish.

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Keep in mind fermentation is exothermic and will create heat as it ferments if your fermenting In a room 70 the actual temp of your beer will be higher than ambient room temp. Check out "Swamp Cooler" for a cheapie quick and easy temperature control. Essentially just setting your fermenter in a keg tub with water to the beer level to help regulate temp swings. Frozen water bottles can be added and swapped out as needed to keep temps down.

lazysunday said:

That being said, how do you take your gravity readings? Do you just super-sanitize your hydrometer and dip it in every week?

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Use a sanitized turkey Baster or wine thief to take a sample and float the hydrometer in the sample. Then taste the sample to see how your beer is coming along. I use the Baster and add the sample right to the tube the hydrometer came in.

woozy said:

I'm a newbie too, but shouldn't you have a final gravity to shoot for and ferment for however long it takes to reach that (and probably assume that should be three weeks-- that seems to be what every-one says everything should take...)?

Click to expand...

Fermentation usually takes between 3-7 days tge rest if the time in primary is for the yeast to do tge rest of their work. There are three phases that yeast work in you can read all about them in " the yeast life cycle" on home brew geek . Com

Terminum said:

I see, I was under the impression that oxidation was just as much of a concern though. Buckets expose much more surface area than a topped-off carboy, not to mention they are theoretically more permeable to air since they are plastic. Didn't realize a month or longer was fine.

Getting slightly off topic but do you recommend buying the new John Palmer book?

Click to expand...

Oxidation doesn't happen during active fermentation. The CO2 that the yeast is making pushes out all the oxygen, so surface area doesn't matter. Once fermentation is complete, there will be a layer of CO2 to protect the beer, assuming you have a lid and airlock on it. Although plastic is theoretically more permeable to air than glass, I don't think it really matters unless you are bulk aging. I've seen people on here who have aged in plastic buckets for several months with no ill affects. Also, note that there is a difference in the plastic that brew buckets are made of and Better Bottles (brand name plastic carboys). Better Bottles are made with a special plastic that makes them impermeable to air, and as good to use as glass.

John Palmer's "How to Brew" and Charlie Papazian's "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing" are homebrewer's bibles. They are excellent books, and a great place to start reading up on brewing. I, like I'm sure many people here, have read them both. If you read them both, you will have a solid grasp of most homebrewing topics.

dirtybasementbrew said:

Fermentation usually takes between 3-7 days tge rest if the time in primary is for the yeast to do tge rest of their work. There are three phases that yeast work in you can read all about them in " the yeast life cycle" on home brew geek . Com

Click to expand...

Yeah... I was mistaken. (I made a fool of myself over it on another thread.). I had a simple misconception that final gravity was reached at time of bottling and that some form fermentation was occurring even through the settlement stage.

I was wrong, of course. Still the terms primary and secondary fermentations can all be misapplied to such a fundamental misconception and compound a single minor mistake into a major block of ignorance.

((If any other newbies have the same misconception, I finally got it clear in my head that there are two stages the wort goes through before bottling: fermentation and settling/clearing and the entire discussion of primary vs. secondary is whether or not to have the wort do these two stages in the same vessel (confusingly called a primary fermenter) or to have it do them in different vessels (confusingly called primary and secondary fermentations)))

((also to add to my confusion: although fermentation (the one and only pre-bottling fermentation) is usually done in less than a week there are various factors that can slow it down or stall it, and thus in all the discussions of letting the wort take up to a month to "be ready" there was always talk of making certain the fermentation had indeed actually been completed.))

((at least that's my *current* understanding. I could have misconceptions/be utterly wrong. It's happened before.))

woozy said:

Yeah... I was mistaken. (I made a fool of myself over it on another thread.). I had a simple misconception that final gravity was reached at time of bottling and that some form fermentation was occurring even through the settlement stage.

I was wrong, of course. Still the terms primary and secondary fermentations can all be misapplied to such a fundamental misconception and compound a single minor mistake into a major block of ignorance.

((If any other newbies have the same misconception, I finally got it clear in my head that there are two stages the wort goes through before bottling: fermentation and settling/clearing and the entire discussion of primary vs. secondary is whether or not to have the wort do these two stages in the same vessel (confusingly called a primary fermenter) or to have it do them in different vessels (confusingly called primary and secondary fermentations)))

((also to add to my confusion: although fermentation (the one and only pre-bottling fermentation) is usually done in less than a week there are various factors that can slow it down or stall it, and thus in all the discussions of letting the wort take up to a month to "be ready" there was always talk of making certain the fermentation had indeed actually been completed.))

((at least that's my *current* understanding. I could have misconceptions/be utterly wrong. It's happened before.))

Click to expand...

No dude your spot on. The yeast go through 3 stages though. Go ahead and secondary it if you have the same consecutive readings a few days apart. Experiment that's the fun of home brewing. You might even want to read up on hops selections and beer types and try some dry hops to reference taste. Of your looking for clarity a few days before you bottle if possible try "cold crashing" for a couple of days at 36-38 degrees and bring to room temp on bottling day. Try diff things and let me know your opinions.
Cheers