Yes, you can over pitch! What would you do now?

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BroStefan

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Every summer I make a 10 gal batch of English Barley Wine. Ive been dialing in the recipe (below) and it has done well for me. I give about half away and oak & cellar the the other half. (A bottle of the Oak Aged 2013 made it to the MBOS at the 2nd rd NHC this year.)

This year, instead of growing up a pitch of yeast (WY 1028) i brewed a standard bitter, rinsed and pitched slurry. I don't have a way to count yeast cells so I used the estimate of cell density in the yeast rinsing sticky. I assumed low figures believing that over-pitching was preferred to under-pitching.

The fermentation started in about 6 hours -a reasonable lag time. It was over in a little over three days - normally it will take ~ 1 week. This recipe usually gets to ~1.021. This batch stopped at ~1.015!

The only variable from prior years was the yeast pitch. Equipment, process, ingredient types and brands - all like the last 3 years.

The beer is not flawed, just thin and uninteresting. None of the rich maltyness I usually get. Clean ferment, not solventy at all, but low in yeast derived flavors. More than drinkable but it is maybe a mid-30's beer.

1st Q: Does my assessment - over-pitching and 2nd generation yeast - make sense?

I'll keg up 5 gals, share and drink it, but I'm not sure that the oak aging will add much.

So - my main question - what interesting things could I try with 5 gals of overly thin EBW?

Add a some malt-dexterin powder to see it that boosts the mouth-feel.?

Do that and add Brett?

A hit from my bug-farm with maybe some fruit?

Keep it around to blend with?

Dump it?

All suggestions welcome! (I could split it, of course.)

Recipe:

Long Winters Nap - English Barley Wine

Crisp Maris Otter 56%

Extra Dark Crystal (Simpson's) 3%

Med Crystal - (Simpson's) 3%

Northern Brewer MO LME 26.4% (9.15 lbs) Late boil addition

Northern Brew Extra Light DME 5.8% (2 lbs) Late Boil addition

Table Sugar 5.8% (2lbs) - into fermenter after high krusen

60 sec O2 into each 5 gal fermentor at pitch, another 20 hours later.

SG 1.098
FG 1.015
IBU: ~50 (Rager) 60 min 1.75 Horizon, with a touch of EKG at 10 min and flame out (held for 20 min before starting to cool)

BIAB RIMS Partial Mash
 
F*cks sake, do not dump it. Just sit on it and do your normal procedure. It'll be fine. I wouldn't say 1.015 is bad. Age it, it'll round out.
 
What was your fermentation temp? Do you use temp control?

I would be more inclined to believe that 2nd gen yeast is more the cause than over pitching, especially if the first beer was higher ABV.

But yes, do not dump it! Malto might help with mouthfeel as last resort, but I'd just age it and see what happens
 
Fermentation temp was like usual. Pitched at 65 f and held there. Normally I'd ramp it up after 4 days a few degree but it was done before I got there.

The "starter beer" was a standard bitter og about 1.040 or so (haven't got my notes with me now.) it came out really tasty.

WY1028 is my is my regular English yeast strain so I know it well but have never experienced a fermentation like this before!
 
That's wild, maybe you missed your mash temp by a few degrees or they changed the strain of yeast on you a little. I'm stumped though

Edit: Whoops! Just looked back and saw extracts.. Never mind about mash temps.

Same brand of extracts as always?
 
Did you oxygenate before pitching onto the yeast cake? From the data I have seen overpitching usually leads to higher FGs while underpitching (or having stressed yeast) results in lower FGs. Maybe this is a case of overpitching with stressed yeast?
 
Garrett Oliver, of Brooklyn Brewery (via Jason Rodriguez's blog):

It is my suspicion that the overpitch achieves a lower gravity, as expected, because of the high numbers of cells available to do the work. The underpitch, however, eventually has a higher percentage of daughters vs older cells. The daughters have near 100% viability, high sterol levels and are raring to go, while older cells will have various viabilities, membrane condition, etc. Many of them may not be as ready for active fermentation as the daughters. I’d expect, therefore, for the underpitch to have a slower start than the overpitch or the control, but then to catch up pretty suddenly and attenuate well. Of course, all assumes relatively healthy yeasts, etc.

It's an educated guess, but one that makes sense. The whole post is interesting, and tracks closely to what the OP is observing with overpitching: http://sciencebrewer.com/2012/03/02/pitching-rate-experiment-part-deux-results/
 
One thing I can tell you with certainty is that adding Brett isn't going to do anything but lower the FG even further.


But might it add some other interesting flavor and aromas? I'm not that experienced with Brett and never with something this high AVB
 
Did you oxygenate before pitching onto the yeast cake? From the data I have seen overpitching usually leads to higher FGs while underpitching (or having stressed yeast) results in lower FGs. Maybe this is a case of overpitching with stressed yeast?


I oxygenated at pitch and about 18 hours later - my standard practice with high gravity worts
 
That's wild, maybe you missed your mash temp by a few degrees or they changed the strain of yeast on you a little. I'm stumped though

Edit: Whoops! Just looked back and saw extracts.. Never mind about mash temps.

Same brand of extracts as always?


It is actually a partial mash. Same brand of everything although the ME might have changed.

My setup Is a direct fired RIMS run with a DIY PID control - basically a Tower of Power clone.

I am monitoring and adjusting mash Ph this year - that is new.
 
Overpitching can lead to lower gravity and reduced esters in my experience. Likely the problem. Id just age it for 6 months, it will likely improve and get some vinous oxidation products. Call it an old ale instead of a barley wine and you will likely like it more.
 
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