Yeast Carbonation test came up flat

[FlyingDutchman]

So if you couldn't tell already, I am brand new to this and in need of some guidance. I have been reading up on making root beer and carbonating it using yeast (From what I have read the startup cost of force carbonation is way too restrictive to justify the large cash outlay before I determine if I will enjoy it enough).

I conducted a little experiment to see what levels of carbonation this method could produce. I wanted to remove all variables except the carbonation, so I set out to make a sweet watery type of yeasty beverage (sounds appitizing right?). From the standpoint of a noob, everything I did should have worked and at least produced a semi-carbonated "beverage". This however, did not happen and I ended up opening up a pressurized bottle of sugar water with yeast... So now I am seeking out help to figure out what I missed.


Here is what I did:

Hardware:
-1 empty 1L soda water bottle
-1 Funnel (I really didnt need to list this, but my hardware list looked rather anemic with just one thing on it)...


Software:
-4 oz sugar
-Filtered water (from a Watermill Express which I highly reccommend if you can find one. They filter their water 7 times using no chemicals and inspect their stations 1-2 times daily. But I digress)
-1/8 teaspoon yeast (Fleischman's baker's yeast)


Procedure:
-poured in dry ingredients then filled the bottle with the room temperature water to about 1" from the top. Capped the bottle and shook till sugar disolved.
-Let the bottle sit for 2 days at about 75 degrees. I occasionally picked it up to feel for pressure buildup and very gently swirled it around a bit to get the white stuff (which I assumed was small carbon dioxide bubbles) off the bottom.


After about 12 hours the bottle was almost rock hard so I thought everything was going great and was worried that the top might pop. At the 48 hour mark, I stuck it in the refrigerator for 2 more days.

I came back to it today and opened it over a sink. It let out a hiss like you would expect from a properly carbonated soda, but when I tasted it straight out of the bottle, it was as flat as the day I put it in. The bottle is now sitting on my desk again building up pressure, but I have little hope that it is going to work.


So what am I missing here? Do the other ingredients somehow help hold the carbon dioxide suspended in the water?

Sorry this is so long. Thanks for any advise!!!

 

[KevinM]

Time. It's all about time. The white stuff is either sugar or yeast and isn't anything to worry about, you can leave it alone.

What will happen is that you have the sugar, water and yeast. The yeast will eat sugar and produce co2. This co2 will both be absorbed by the water, as well as pressurize the airspace in the bottle. As more co2 is produced more will be absorbed and stay in the headspace. Without a pressure tester, it's hard to judge how much co2 is actually in the bottle and the water, unless you're really used to knowing how much 'give' a bottle has at any given pressure.

Colder water absorbs more co2 as well as pressure being linked to temperature.

So yes, you had carbonation, and like you said, without being able to judge the pressure other than by squeezing the bottle and guessing (hey, some people are really good at that, the best I can do is guess with a bike tire), you just had to toss it in. So next time, do it again for 3 days and test. And maybe 4 days, and test if that isn't enough. There is a fair amount of variability when carbonating with yeast.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Thanks for the info. It just sounds like I need to be more patient. I could probably McGyver a pressure sensor together. It sounds like it may be a good next step. What kind of pressures am I looking for and for how long? I have read 35-40psi for force carbonation. Is this the same for yeast or does this method throw everything off?

The temperature sounds like it is a rather delicate balance between warm enough to keep the yeast happy and belching out the CO2 (brings back images of Alton Brown and his sock puppets...) and cold enough for the water to hold the CO2 in a good suspension.

 

[KevinM]

Definately Alton Brown and the sock puppets *Burrrppp*

I think it'll be around that range. I got tired of using yeast and forgetting about it, or not drinking it fast enough so I switched to force carbonation. It should still be the same pressure however.

If you do go over, or let it sit a fraction too long, it shouldn't be an issue. Plastic soda bottles are rated for well over 100psi. Usually in the 120-300 range. So if you accidentally hit 60psi, it's not that bad. Your liquid would be overcarbonated, but the only danger is a gusher when opening it, so just open slowly, and if you have to do the open/close quickly method to release the co2 and prevent the liquid from hitting the ceiling, so be it.

Oh, and a force carbing system would run from $50-150 depending on what you want and get.
ISI twist and sparkle $50 but you have to keep getting those tiny co2 cartridges@ 50 cents a cartridge (at a minimum)
Sodastream, 100-150, using sodastream's co2 tanks
paintball tank/adapter/regulator/carbonator cap 25+15+65+15=120+co2 refills
5 pound tank & regulator & carbonator cap 65+65+15=145+co2 refills
10 pound tank 75
So if you ever look into it, your larger tank, if used frequently, becomes your second most cost effective carbonating method (especially since you have to drive and refill less frequently). With the first being the yeast and sugar method.

It helped that I needed most of the setup for beer, and I also wanted to use it for carbonated water (I was using an old style seltzer bottle which was a pain since it would only make a few ounces and used those co2 cartridges)

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Well its good to know that I'm not going to be making a soda bomb any time soon. I thing I would definately skip the smaller cartridge systems and I have never been too impressed with the SodaStream setup. I went to my local brewers supply store today (A De Falco's) (suprisingly enough the only one I could find in Houston. I miss Michigan where you could find one on every corner). They gave me a price of ~$175 on a 5lb tank, adaptor, and regulator (the cap was seperate). My guess is its just a cost of living difference, but maybe I'll check out some paintball shops around town and see what they have available.

Thanks for the info!

 

[KevinM]

Hmm. Yeah, you might be better off online. Kegconnection has the same setup for $130 including the cap + 8 bucks shipping. Then you just have to have the tank filled ($10 or so)

 

[Dstreetbrew]

When u do make it again I would suggest not using bakers yeast and go with and ale or champagne yeast instead.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Thanks. I just read something about bakers yeast not working well under pressure. I did pick up some champagne yeast while I was out this weekend. I also picked up some extracts to get me started. I've been experimenting with different sugars and additives.

My family is getting really sick of me calling them to the kitchen to try the lattest array of test batches and my dish strainer is overloaded with the plastic cups I've been using for the samples... None have been perfect yet. I think I am probably going to end up making it without the use of extracts ultimately since all the extracts I've tried seem a little too sweet. I enjoy a god sweet taste too, but I prefer a more full flavor with less emphasis on over sweetening. But thats a topic for another time. I'll bottle the best ones and use the champagne yeast and see what happens in a couple weeks.

 

[Dstreetbrew]

Deaf use real roots. Stay away from the extracts. Taste musc better and u can Taylor it to how you want it to Taist

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Well I do have slight hope now. I mixed up a small batch with the root beer extract (don't want to try any scratch made till I can get the carbonation to work) and plenty of sugar in it. I added 1/4 tsp of champaign yeast in each of the 4 1L bottles I used. I set the bottles next to my servers where the temp is a consistent 78 degrees 24/7. After about 1 1/2 days they were all hard as a rock but, remembering the results from last time, I let them sit out for 6 more days for a total of 8 days at room temp. I then stuck them in the refrigerator for 3 more days. Opened one up today and there was a slight rush of air but nothing like I expected (more like opening a beer). I poured the concoction in to a glass and no carbonation showed... Although I did notice a few bubbles start to form after I let it sit for a minute or two! The taste was rather interesting too. A lightly alcoholic taste that definately added to the flavor of the drink.

Being dissappointed again by the yeast, I tested some of the package which I had used for the batch. It was definately a hardy yeast. Perhaps next time I will start with a warmer "brew". I think I'll fill the bottles with root beer at about 100 degrees F and wait about an hour before capping.

Here's hoping next time works out better!

 

[Dstreetbrew]

Play around with it but I would not leve the bottles in caped for long. You should be capin as soon as it is in the bottle to keep things as clean as possible. You don't want to contaminate the brew