Wort chiller used as a herms coil in keggle?

[GJOCONNELL]

Hi people,

I am at the start of trying to build a herms kettle as I have two keggle and I want to use one of them as a herms for work re circulate through my mash tun.

Has anyone used a 50 ft wort chiller in a keggle with success for this?


I was looking at the stuff at morebeer and trying to see if I can get the adapters needed for a quick disconnect from wort chiller to hook up to the pump. But first wanted to see if anyone had been successfully with this period before I start the process of figuring out issues.

 

[Yooper]

I used my 25' copper immersion chiller for my HERMS coil in my HLT. I have an electric element in mine, so it sits above the element. I have it coming out through the side, near the top, so that the "in" and "out" are next to each other. It works great. The only thing is, since it sits above my element, I have to have about 6.5 gallons of water in the HLT to cover the coil. I have a little motorized stirring to agitate the water so to avoid hot spots. I'll see if I can grab a picture later, if you'd like.

If you are only using two vessels, where would you put the coil? I'm trying to figure out what you want to do.

 

[GJOCONNELL]

I have two keggles and a 20 gallon mash tun. I would fill one keggle with hot water with the coil in it. Re-circulate with one pump from mash tun through HERMS coil. Second pump would whirlpool the HERMS keggle to avoid hotspots in the HERM keggle. The mash would re-circulate back through the mash tun through a re-circulation manifold. I have the Infusion Mash tun and manifold so it would trickle back over the grain bed.

I still have yet to take my maiden voyage with the mash tun.

 

[frodus17]

This is what I did:


The HERMS coil is in my lid, so I can use it in my HLT when recirculating into my MLT, and when finished with the Boil, I can throw it in at the end to sanitize, and run water through it. Have done it 3 times now and it cools fairly quickly, especially if I'm whirlpooling.

At some point, I was considering throwing ice and cold water into the HLT when its empty, and recirculating boiled Wort through the coils sitting in the HLT so I can use less water. Will have to test this, but should work fine.

 

[dmcman73]

This is what I did:
View attachment 353108

The HERMS coil is in my lid, so I can use it in my HLT when recirculating into my MLT, and when finished with the Boil, I can throw it in at the end to sanitize, and run water through it. Have done it 3 times now and it cools fairly quickly, especially if I'm whirlpooling.

At some point, I was considering throwing ice and cold water into the HLT when its empty, and recirculating boiled Wort through the coils sitting in the HLT so I can use less water. Will have to test this, but should work fine.

I actually read about a few people that tried cooling their wort exactly as you described with Ice and water. From what I understand, the problem is the heat from the wort melts the ice and warms the water surrounding the coils and the remainder of the ice and cold water do nothing. Since there isn't anything circulation the cold water and ice in the kettle, it became useless unless they stirred the ice / water.

 

[mxstar21]

I actually read about a few people that tried cooling their wort exactly as you described with Ice and water. From what I understand, the problem is the heat from the wort melts the ice and warms the water surrounding the coils and the remainder of the ice and cold water do nothing. Since there isn't anything circulation the cold water and ice in the kettle, it became useless unless they stirred the ice / water.

I think in the picture he is using it as HERMS coil. For the boil kettle he uses it as an immersion chiller and pumps ice water through the coils, and probably fills the the HLT with ice water or uses a cooler with ice water and pumps that through the coil.

Just my assumption.

 

[mxstar21]

Whirlpooling should help as GJOCONNEL does. If what I described is how frodus17 does it, I think whirlpooling the wort around the wort chiller would help as well.

 

[dmcman73]

I think in the picture he is using it as HERMS coil. For the boil kettle he uses it as an immersion chiller and pumps ice water through the coils, and probably fills the the HLT with ice water or uses a cooler with ice water and pumps that through the coil.

Just my assumption.

I was referring to frodus17 thoughts on how to use it, he stated "throwing ice and cold water into the HLT when its empty, and recirculating boiled Wort through the coils sitting in the HLT"

 

[mxstar21]

Gotcha. My bad miss -read your post.

 

[steveoatley]

At some point, I was considering throwing ice and cold water into the HLT when its empty, and recirculating boiled Wort through the coils sitting in the HLT so I can use less water. Will have to test this, but should work fine.

That is what I do
Use my Mash Tun as a Pre Chiller
Fill it with Ice & 5 gallons of water - run that threw the HERMS Coil in my BK

SAVES A TON of WATER !!!

I only use 13 gallons of water to chill 6 gallons of wort in 15 minutes.

my 2 cents

Steve

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

I used to use my wort chiller as my HLT coil. but it was too small and too long which really slowed down the flow rate. Eventually I just upgraded to a dedicated SS coil.

 

[frodus17]

I was referring to frodus17 thoughts on how to use it, he stated "throwing ice and cold water into the HLT when its empty, and recirculating boiled Wort through the coils sitting in the HLT"

The more I think about it, I think I would prefer to run water through it, as it doubles as cleaning the HERMS coil.

I have a 2 pump setup. Right now, since my control panel isn't finished, I brew extract brews and I just run water through the coil from the faucet, and recirculate with one pump. I can usually get 5 gallons down to almost pitching temp in about 15 minutes.

Once my control panel is done and I move back into doing All Grain, I'm thinking I'll put an ice bath in the HLT, run water from that through the HERMS coil, then back through for re-circulation. I have whirlpool arms for HLT and BK so with 2 pumps going, the liquid in the HLT and BK will get plenty of agitation. It sounds elaborate, but in fact, it's quite simple and uses a ton less water.

Then once the ice is melted, add PBW and clean the other 2 kettles.

 

[steveoatley]

I brew with a similar system

2 vessel - 2 pumps

Mash tun is my 10 gallon Cooler
Brew Kettle is also my HLT - the HERMS coil is in my BK to help maintain Mash temps

After the MASH is done - and the boil is going
I dump the grain out of the MT - add 27 lbs of Ice & 5 gal of H2O
and use it as a pre chiller

I have 2 pumps
1- for whirlpool the wort
2- for re circulating the chilled water threw the HERMS

The pic is actually my mash re circulating

 

[GotPushrods]

Guess I'm in that club too. You can't go wrong, makes for a very elegantly simple brewery with the advantages of small and large systems.

I have a 2-vessel no-sparge (or sometimes top-up-from-the-HLT-to-mashout) system, MLT, and BK/HLT combo. The only heating element is in the BK/HLT so it makes for a VERY simple control panel. 1 element, 1 PID, 1 coil, 1 timer, 2 pumps.

During the mash the lid+coil are in the BK/HLT for HERMS recirculation, during the boil it comes out, and to chill it goes back in with chilling water flowing through it. I braided some stainless wire around the coils to keep a small gap for flow, it works very well. Took the slinky action out of it too so it doesn't slap the element. Both bottom drain and only 2 vessels makes for easy cleaning. Not to mention when you go down this simplicity route the whole brewery fits snug against a single wall, fermenting fridges and all.

 

[steveoatley]

I like your system Got PushRods

My HERMS coil is perminate in my Brew Kettle

I wish i had done the Lid mount !! - next time

Would make for easier cleaning !

S

 

[dmcman73]

The more I think about it, I think I would prefer to run water through it, as it doubles as cleaning the HERMS coil.

I have a 2 pump setup. Right now, since my control panel isn't finished, I brew extract brews and I just run water through the coil from the faucet, and recirculate with one pump. I can usually get 5 gallons down to almost pitching temp in about 15 minutes.

Once my control panel is done and I move back into doing All Grain, I'm thinking I'll put an ice bath in the HLT, run water from that through the HERMS coil, then back through for re-circulation. I have whirlpool arms for HLT and BK so with 2 pumps going, the liquid in the HLT and BK will get plenty of agitation. It sounds elaborate, but in fact, it's quite simple and uses a ton less water.

Then once the ice is melted, add PBW and clean the other 2 kettles.

That's how I used to do it with an immersion chiller, water pumped through the coils and submerged into hot wort while stirring or recirculating the wort in the BK. I switched to a CFC a while ago and haven't looked back. I can use my CFC as a HERMS as well.

 

[dmcman73]

Speaking of the HERMS coils in the lid, one of the main advantages of having the HERMS coil mounted to the side wall of the kettle (in port at the top, out port at the bottom) is that it can gravity drain completely, no loss of wort and after cleaning it, will be bone dry inside from gravity draining as well. With it in the lid (both in and out ports facing up) you have some wort loss and then having to rotate it around upside down to try and drain all liquids out of the coil once your done right? I would assume you wouldn't want water sitting in that coil until your next batch and then getting pumped into your mash.

 

[GotPushrods]

With it in the lid (both in and out ports facing up) you have some wort loss and then having to rotate it around upside down to try and drain all liquids out of the coil once your done right? I would assume you wouldn't want water sitting in that coil until your next batch and then getting pumped into your mash.

A fun side effect I accidentally discovered: the coil will siphon itself empty when you disconnect the higher hose. I disconnect the mash return hose and open the drain below my mash pump. The coil drains through the pump sucking air from the top. I get almost 1/2 gallon, which is just about what the coil and hose hold.

Not to mention after the mash it's being used as the chiller. It's being rinsed the entire time. After chilling it drains itself yet again... Pretty cool.

At some point between brew days I'll be using the shop vac for something. If I remember I'll apply suction to see what I can get. Barely a bubbling in the pipes and the vac filter is still dry. The few drops that might be left will surely be dechlorinated by next brew day.

 

[GJOCONNELL]

Guess I'm in that club too. You can't go wrong, makes for a very elegantly simple brewery with the advantages of small and large systems.

I have a 2-vessel no-sparge (or sometimes top-up-from-the-HLT-to-mashout) system, MLT, and BK/HLT combo. The only heating element is in the BK/HLT so it makes for a VERY simple control panel. 1 element, 1 PID, 1 coil, 1 timer, 2 pumps.

During the mash the lid+coil are in the BK/HLT for HERMS recirculation, during the boil it comes out, and to chill it goes back in with chilling water flowing through it. I braided some stainless wire around the coils to keep a small gap for flow, it works very well. Took the slinky action out of it too so it doesn't slap the element. Both bottom drain and only 2 vessels makes for easy cleaning. Not to mention when you go down this simplicity route the whole brewery fits snug against a single wall, fermenting fridges and all.

Do you have trouble getting those center chugger pumps to get going when you start up? I open my valve feeding the pump wide open and it still takes a moment to get the flow going strong.

Mine are mounted in the same configuration but I have issues getting it fired up. How do you eliminate the air?

 

[GotPushrods]

Do you have trouble getting those center chugger pumps to get going when you start up? I open my valve feeding the pump wide open and it still takes a moment to get the flow going strong.

Mine are mounted in the same configuration but I have issues getting it fired up. How do you eliminate the air?

Not at all, they get totally flooded and pump immediately. I've never had priming issues. Only cavitation and magnetic decoupling when pumping near-boiling liquids. But that's going to be an issue with any orientation.

Make sure you aren't restricting the output either, it will let liquid flow and fully prime the pump. Otherwise air will have to bubble up the inlet to flood the head, I could see that taking a while to prime.

 

[jcav]

Just thought I'd chime in on the water in the coil issue. I have a permanently mounted herms coil in my keggle. During clean up when brewing is over, I use my shop vac in blower mode. I have a small tube adapter for my vac that goes right into the top of the coil and I blow the air through it. The left over water drains into a pitcher in a minute or two from the bottom of the coil outlet. Blows it out like magic!

John