Why not let wort cool overnight in brew kettle?

[therackman]

One of the things I dislike most about brewing is waiting for my wort to cool in an ice bath before pitching yeast. I know an immersion chiller would be a good investment and would minimize the time it takes to cool the wort. I recently came across the recommendation of racking your wort to a sanitized plastic vessel and letting it cool overnight rather than chilling immediately (http://www.steeleconcept.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Bestwaytobrew.pdf).

I like the ease of this process, but it also makes me wonder why you even need to rack to the cube then rack to your primary once cooled? Why not just leave the wort in your brew kettle with the lid on to let it cool overnight? What am I missing here? I know there is some chance of oxidation, but if you put some weight on the lid, that should minimize air transfer I would think. Please chime in on what the downside of this method would be.

 

[CCMuggs13]

I'm a new brewer but I believe there are people who do this. Someone else commented this on one of my other threads:

I've been doing BIAB, no-chill with last few batches. Or overnight chill, really. Takes about 18 hours to get down near pitch temps.

Usually I end my brew day around 11pm, so the hot kettle gets left outside to cool overnight. I hose down the sides of kettle and the ground around it a couple of times with cold water as I'm closing stuff up for the night. Figur a little evaporative cooling cant hurt. I have the lid clamped on so critters can get in but that's all I do.

Winters aren't very cold here, so it's perfect for overnight cooling. Hot summers mean I get as close as possible to pitching before the day gets hot then pop the kettle into a swamp cooler ( or transfer to sanitized fermenter, then swamp cooler) in low 70sF basement to get to final temps.

No problems so far. Maybe 10-15 no-chill batches.

So I'm not sure if there are any downsides to it but it is done...

 

[rmb]

I was recently told that bacteria multiplies much faster than yeast... the goal of pitching asap is to let the yeast get a head start so the bacteria doesn't take hold.

 

[quincy07]

I think the logic behind getting the wort cooled as quickly as possible is that you want to pitch your yeast as soon as possible so other microbes don't get a chance to get a foothold and infect your beer. If you pitch ASAP, your yeast will start multiplying within a few hours and will pretty much be able to overpower any other foreign buggies that may have gotten into your wort. And you don't need to worry about oxidation w unfermented wort, you actually want to aerate your wort before pitching to give the yeast plenty of oxygen, at least that's what I believe the reasoning is behind it.

 

[therackman]

Thanks. I had not seen anything saying this was ok previously. It's nice to see that others have tried and had success with this method.

I'm a new brewer but I believe there are people who do this. Someone else commented this on one of my other threads:



So I'm not sure if there are any downsides to it but it is done...

 

[therackman]

Ok. This makes sense. I still think it's unlikely to get bacteria in there after boiling and closing off the kettle with a lid. I would regret getting an infected batch.

I think the logic behind getting the wort cooled as quickly as possible is that you want to pitch your yeast as soon as possible so other microbes don't get a chance to get a foothold and infect your beer. If you pitch ASAP, your yeast will start multiplying within a few hours and will pretty much be able to overpower any other foreign buggies that may have gotten into your wort. And you don't need to worry about oxidation w unfermented wort, you actually want to aerate your wort before pitching to give the yeast plenty of oxygen, at least that's what I believe the reasoning is behind it.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

People do the "no chill" thing all the time, and report good results. I would assume that their sanitation regimen is top notch, and their wort somewhat sealed in the kettle or fermenter in order to do this. IMO, and that of most brewers, a fast chill and pitch is ideal. The cold break helps with clarity in the finished beer, and the quick pitch ensures that brewer's yeast is the microbe fermenting the wort. The answer to the reason not to "no chill" is simply that lactic bacteria thrive in temps from 100-120º F and can reproduce and take over quite quickly. Especially lactobacillus sp., this is exactly how a sour mash/sour wort beer like Berliner weiss is made. After the mash, or sparge, the wort is inoculated with lacto either by grain or vial, and allowed to sit at these temps overnight or longer to achieve the desired level of acidity. Not saying you're going to create a sour wort with an overnight chill, but the risks are certainly greater even if your sanitation is up to par.

 

[danb35]

The difference between leaving the wort in the kettle and racking it into a cube is that the cube is airtight. The boiling wort sterilizes (or at least thoroughly sanitizes) the interior of the cube, and nothing can get in until you open it (24+ hours later) to pour it into your fermenter and pitch the yeast.

No matter how well your kettle's lid fits, it will not be airtight. The cooling of the wort (and air) will cause it to contract, drawing in outside air, which may have harmful bacteria in it. Whether this will make a significant difference I don't know, but that's the difference between the cube and leaving it in the kettle.

Keep in mind that you'll probably want to adjust your hop additions if you leave the wort in the kettle to cool overnight, just as you would for no-chill in a cube.

 

[satyrbassist]

Seems risky to me. I'm sure it's done to great success but for me personally it wouldn't be worth the shortcut. With a start to finish time of 3-7 weeks depending in the brew its worth the extra insurance to take care of just one of the many things that could go wrong with a beer. I think I would kick myself if I could have paid the extra hour of attention for an ice bath and didn't only to find out I had wasted the last 6 weeks.

 

[therackman]

Yes, I agree. I've yet to have an infected batch and when you put it like that, it's probably not worth taking the chance.

Seems risky to me. I'm sure it's done to great success but for me personally it wouldn't be worth the shortcut. With a start to finish time of 3-7 weeks depending in the brew its worth the extra insurance to take care of just one of the many things that could go wrong with a beer. I think I would kick myself if I could have paid the extra hour of attention for an ice bath and didn't only to find out I had wasted the last 6 weeks.

 

[woozy]

You can always transfer to an airtight cube and put in an ice bath and then you have the luxury of letting the ice bath take as long as it needs (hours-- even over-night).

It seems to me that'd be the safest of all methods.

 

[danb35]

If you've got it in the airtight cube, and you did that right off the boil, there's no reason to try to hurry it along with an ice bath--you can reportedly let it sit for weeks, if not months, before pouring into the fermenter and pitching the yeast with no quality loss. I don't speak from personal experience here, having done only batch no-chill, but that seems to be the consensus from those who have done it.

 

[progmac]

I have been doing ovrnight coolingnthis summer when the ground water is warm. 15 minutes with then wort chiller takes it to around 100 and then overnight in an ale pail. Seems to be working fine. It takes. Lot longer than "overnight" to get to pitching temps; for me at least it takes 12+ hours to go from 100 to room temp of 71

 

[BansheeRider]

Are you doing full boils or partial? If partial the cooling litterally takes about 20 min in an ice bath, then when you top off with cold water you are cooling it even further. If you have a chiller you can cool it in 10 min.

Couple reasons not to wait 24 hours to pitch yeast. Number one reason is infection. I don't care what type of vessel the wort is in. The yeast help fight off bacteria. The second one is clarity. A faster cold break helps with clarity in the end result.

 

[sikkingj]

Great topic. Let me state up front, I've not created a world class beer. I'd define world class as a 46 or better competitive score. I've brewed plenty of 30+ beers.

Disclaimer aside, I regularly brew and let sit over night my beer in the brew kettle. As some of the scientific minded brews mentioned a cooling kettle will draw in air. True, but so what - pitch a large starter - large as in 2l or better on the stir plate and your yeast will out compete the bacteria that may have infected your beer.

Sometimes I put water on the lid of my brew pot - okay it rains and this works out very well.

My problems are not with infections and their associated off favors, but with maintaining the proper mash temperatures for 60 minutes or maintaining a consistent fermentation temperature. The quick chilling of the wort is nice, but I put it in the same category as the a secondary - utterly not required and used to inflate brew store profits; why do we all need immersion chillers, plat chillers, etc.

 

[yewtah-brewha]

its just an extra precautionary step. as brewers we need to take as many steps as possible to reduce the chance for infection! wort chillers wern't available in the 1800's and previouse to that. Im sure they did okay!

 

[abledsoe]

I have done the overnight cool a few times, but I usually get the wort under 100* then rack it into the carboy and seal it up. While it isn't my preferred method I have done it in a pinch and never had any trouble.

 

[rmb]

Again, bacteria multiplies a lot faster than the yeast does.

 

[Yooper]

Again, bacteria multiplies a lot faster than the yeast does.

Yes, I agree.

I don't leave my wort out overnight for the same reason I don't cook spaghetti sauce and let it sit overnight to cool before putting it in the fridge 10 hours later. Food safety says that temperatures above 140 will not allow microbes to grow, while temperatures above 40 degrees up to 140 are "danger zone" for bacterial growth.

I'd either put the wort in a sealed sanitary "cube" fermenter, or chill it. Leaving it out is probably ok much of the time. Except when it's not.

 

[therackman]

Thanks for chiming in everyone. It seems like there are 2 camps on this, those willing to take the chance and those unwilling to risk infection. I respect the thoughts and opinions on both sides. I'm obviously still torn, but I lean toward the simplicity and laziness of the overnight chill. If I ever got an infection from this method, I'd be sure to change.

Has anyone that does an overnight chill in their brew kettle ended up with an infection?

Yes, I agree.

I don't leave my wort out overnight for the same reason I don't cook spaghetti sauce and let it sit overnight to cool before putting it in the fridge 10 hours later. Food safety says that temperatures above 140 will not allow microbes to grow, while temperatures above 40 degrees up to 140 are "danger zone" for bacterial growth.

I'd either put the wort in a sealed sanitary "cube" fermenter, or chill it. Leaving it out is probably ok much of the time. Except when it's not.

 

[nutty_gnome]

I did the no chill process for well over a year (around 20+ 5 gallon batches). When you pop on the lid and then top it with a towel, there isn't much that can get in there. The wort and vessel are clean. and stay clean because they are hot for so long. While some air gets sucked in as wort cools, it is negligible if you are pitching within 24 hours. It think the infection chance is comparable to chilling with a coil. I never had a bad batch from the process when I no chilled in the kettle.

If you choose to do this you will want to pitch plenty of yeast to ensure the yeast out-compete anything else.
Good Luck and be sure to alter your hop additions to account for the long time at temp after flameout. N_G

PS: I ONLY moved to a copper coil because one fell into my lap and I like wrapping up a brew on one day. Thats it.

 

[therackman]

Can you guide me to info on how to alter the hop additions to account for the no chill method?

I did the no chill process for well over a year (around 20+ 5 gallon batches). When you pop on the lid and then top it with a towel, there isn't much that can get in there. The wort and vessel are clean. and stay clean because they are hot for so long. While some air gets sucked in as wort cools, it is negligible if you are pitching within 24 hours. It think the infection chance is comparable to chilling with a coil. I never had a bad batch from the process when I no chilled in the kettle.

If you choose to do this you will want to pitch plenty of yeast to ensure the yeast out-compete anything else.
Good Luck and be sure to alter your hop additions to account for the long time at temp after flameout. N_G

PS: I ONLY moved to a copper coil because one fell into my lap and I like wrapping up a brew on one day. Thats it.

 

[danb35]

There's a very lengthy thread here on no-chill brewing, but I don't have the link handy--I'm sure a search would find it. The short version (i.e., the version I remember) is to use your hops for 20 minutes less than called for. Thus, if you have a hop addition that's supposed to boil for 60 minutes, add it with 40 minutes to go. If your recipe calls for adding hops with 20 minutes to go or less, make that addition before you start the boil--this is called First Wort Hopping, or FWH.

That's the best I remember--try searching for more, or maybe someone else will chime in with more detail.

 

[nutty_gnome]

This link goes to the chart proposed by the Pol way back when. The whole, huge thread fleshes out the advantages and disadvantages of the process.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/exploring-no-chill-brewing-117111/index5.html#post1351694

After many batches, I disagree with using FWH for the late additions. Instead of FWH, I would just add the late addition hops at flameout and understand that there will be a big flavor component from that addition and plan accordingly.

 

[midfielder5]

I have no chilled since I went AG in mid 2009.
I tear off two inch wide sheets of saran wrap, spritz with sanitizer and wrap my kettle edge. The heat makes it pliable and it takes three applications to seal the 10g pot. This is so the lid gaps don't allow in outside air. I don't worry about it. I can't use a wort chiller with my kitchen faucet fitting (I think) and my kitchen sink has real low water pressure anyways.
The hard part is nailing down hop additions.

 

[midfielder5]

After many batches, I disagree with using FWH for the late additions. Instead of FWH, I would just add the late addition hops at flameout and understand that there will be a big flavor component from that addition and plan accordingly.

I have learned to wait about 15- 20 minutes with the lid off when it is still off gassing steam (ie hasnt yet dropped below ~175*) , then I throw in my aroma hops. For the online calcators I put it as a FO addition.

 

[BigJack]

Apologies for the zombie thread. I've been researching chilling vs no chill today and really thinking things through. See, I've no-chilled most of my batches (those I haven't ice-chilled or cold-water chilled) and never had an issue. Even so, I've always felt like a leper for doing so. No-chill just isn't what the cool kids do. So I've spent half of today trying to talk myself into buying my first chiller. After all, the drought in Texas has finally been busted and all the other local brewers have been chilling away even during the dry years, so I feel like I'm supposed to catch up.

But after reading and reflecting, I'm not going to do it. No-chill works for me. Always has. Why spend money to solve a non-existent problem?

Here is my process. When the boil is over, I sanitize the lid to my kettle, put it on snugly, then sanitize some tin foil and seal the lid up with that. Nothing new is getting in that kettle- and everything already in there has just been boiled into lifelessness.

18-24 hours later, I transfer and pitch. Easy as pie.

For hoppy beers, I keep my bittering charge the same, and shift all late additions by 15 minutes. Works like a charm.

Now, y'all who live in wetter climates probably ought to keep on chilling. I'm not trying to preach the no-chill gospel to the masses. But I live in the desert and I will gladly trade the slight risk of no-chill for preserving water in a dusty land.

 

[Yooper]

Apologies for the zombie thread. I've been researching chilling vs no chill today and really thinking things through. See, I've no-chilled most of my batches (those I haven't ice-chilled or cold-water chilled) and never had an issue. Even so, I've always felt like a leper for doing so. No-chill just isn't what the cool kids do. So I've spent half of today trying to talk myself into buying my first chiller. After all, the draught in Texas has finally been busted and all the other local brewers have been chilling away even during the dry years, so I feel like I'm supposed to catch up.

But after reading and reflecting, I'm not going to do it. No-chill works for me. Always has. Why spend money to solve a non-existent problem?

Here is my process. When the boil is over, I sanitize the lid to my kettle, put it on snugly, then sanitize some tin foil and seal the lid up with that. Nothing new is getting in that kettle- and everything already in there has just been boiled into lifelessness.

18-24 hours later, I transfer and pitch. Easy as pie.

For hoppy beers, I keep my bittering charge the same, and shift all late additions by 15 minutes. Works like a charm.

Now, y'all who live in wetter climates probably ought to keep on chilling. I'm not trying to preach the no-chill gospel to the masses. But I live in the desert and I will gladly trade the slight risk of no-chill for preserving water in a dusty land.

If it works for you, no reason to change. The no-chill brewing originally took hold in Australia, due to water shortages.

What I would probably do if I was doing "no chill" is to put the wort in those plastik cubes or whatever they are called that are food safe at boiling temperatures, and put it right in there when the boil is done and let it cool that way and then just pitch the yeast that way.

 

[LoveDrums]

One of the things I dislike most about brewing is waiting for my wort to cool in an ice bath before pitching yeast. I know an immersion chiller would be a good investment and would minimize the time it takes to cool the wort. I recently came across the recommendation of racking your wort to a sanitized plastic vessel and letting it cool overnight rather than chilling immediately (http://www.steeleconcept.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Bestwaytobrew.pdf).

I like the ease of this process, but it also makes me wonder why you even need to rack to the cube then rack to your primary once cooled? Why not just leave the wort in your brew kettle with the lid on to let it cool overnight? What am I missing here? I know there is some chance of oxidation, but if you put some weight on the lid, that should minimize air transfer I would think. Please chime in on what the downside of this method would be.

Anybody have the "Bestwaytobrew.pdf" mentioned above? The site is no longer available.