Why I'm considering brewing my own beer

[RoatanBill]

I believe in the Reinheitsgebot approach to all food and drink. I try to eat and drink only what someone from the 17th century would recognize. No soda, no Doritos, no ice cream, etc; nothing but natural foods known to humanity before the chemists managed to get poisons approved as food.

Recently I came to understand that the major US brewers use ingredients I never thought would be found in beer; garbage like HFCS, GMO corn, etc. I always thought my beer drinking kept me away from the chemical concoctions normally found in soda and processed foods but I was apparently wrong.

I drink water, beer and black coffee with maybe a bottle or two of wine a year. That's it. I happen to live outside the US where if a brewer decided to use depleted uranium or mercury in their beer, it would be OK. I just never thought about it as an issue. I am now awake, however. I drank one of the local brews and Guinness Extra Stout, but have now given up on the local brew as I don't know what's in it.

Years ago, while researching which battery operated drill to purchase, I came across some wisdom that has stuck with me ever since. Someone posted - 'you don't want the drill, you want the hole'. He was correct.

Blasphemy warning - I want the beer, not the brewing. I'll accept the brewing as a necessary part to get the beer, but I'm approaching researching this process to get clean "food", not to start a hobby. I may end up liking the process and it may turn into an enjoyable pass time, but I'm after the beer and at least for now might put up with the brewing.

I'm a retired Electrical Engineer / Professional Software Developer self employed and an employer most of my adult life. I own a bakery (wife is a foodie) and businesses in the Caribbean.

 

[Frodo]

I happen to live outside the US where if a brewer decided to use depleted uranium or mercury in their beer, it would be OK. I just never thought about it as an issue.

I personally wouldn't assume that of places outside the US, and hopefully the US isn't now headed that way. Welcome to the brewing community, I imagine you can get some good organic ingredients.

 

[madscientist451]

Sounds pretty good. What is the first beer you want to make?

 

[mongoose33]

I suspect that most people who get into homebrewing do it because they like beer, not the brewing, though I also suspect that many, like me, come to enjoy the process as well as the outcome.

What I didn't see in your post is that you really like/love beer, and that's why you're looking into brewing.

At any rate, good luck in your search.

 

[Drk93TT]

Welp Guiness extra stout is fined with isinglass which is made of fish bladders.
Welcome to the community. Something tells me you won't be brewing very long as you don't want the brewing part of the beer creation. At any rate maybe you will think differently after your 5th or so batch.

 

[RoatanBill]

The US is in the lead "heading that way". The bulk of every US supermarket is full of processed food. The citizenry has been conditioned to think of Coke and Pepsi as legitimate food to be consumed when in fact it's just a chemical concoction.

I get fantastic vegetables. The best carrots, peppers, avocado, etc I've ever had.

 

[kh54s10]

I try to eat healthy and avoid all the "engineered" stuff but I also don't sweat it too much. If you worry too much about that you will expend a lot of energy and possibly give yourself ulcers......

OP, you will have to go with Organics. Anything else and you will not know for sure how it was processed. I am sure that most grains etc. have been dosed well with pesticides.
And your water..... What is in that?

And if you want true 17th century beer, it would be something else. At that time they didn't use hops, stirred the wort with their magic yeast infected stick, let it ferment in questionable conditions, and I am sure made a large percentage of disgusting "beer".

 

[RoatanBill]

What I didn't see in your post is that you really like/love beer, and that's why you're looking into brewing.

Beer makes up a huge percentage of my liquids. I really like beer. If I can get a few recipes for beers that I like, I'd be happy and would view brewing as more than a chore. I like Guinness, but would also prefer something a bit less heavy on occasion.

As an engineer and software geek, purchasing and setting up the equipment has appeal, especially if I can automate the heck out of it. I like repeatability and consistency with as many variables reduced to known limits as possible.

With the one week of research I've done so far, a single level 3 tank all electric set up utilizing a HERMS approach and microprocessors, pumps, solenoids, etc for monitoring and control of timing, temperatures, and fluid movements is what I'm leaning towards.

BTW - I like your tag line. I laughed out loud the first time I read it. Brilliant!

 

[RoatanBill]

Welp Guiness extra stout is fined with isinglass which is made of fish bladders.
/QUOTE]

That's not that big a deal to me but I heard that they no longer use it to be vegan friendly. What they use instead may be worse - I don't know.

Something tells me you won't be brewing very long as you don't want the brewing part of the beer creation. At any rate maybe you will think differently after your 5th or so batch.

I really have little choice but to brew my own, like it or not. Anything shipped in to the island isn't handled properly for the most part. An ocean voyage in a hot container isn't the best environment for food in general and certainly not for beer. Even the local brews aren't consistent in flavor as temperatures experienced in transit along with the handling I've seen it get shows no respect for the product. I hope I can get into the brewing from the science perspective as that would hold my attention and curiosity.

 

[Sammy86]

I may end up liking the process and it may turn into an enjoyable pass time, but I'm after the beer and at least for now might put up with the brewing.

Welcome to the community...something very interesting you wrote here...no brewing no beer, it doesn't grow on trees and it ain't fallin' from the heavens quiet yet...so I would recommend if you want the beer you make the brewing as enjoyable as possible otherwise you're not gonna be drinking it...good luck to you

 

[RoatanBill]

OP, you will have to go with Organics. Anything else and you will not know for sure how it was processed. I am sure that most grains etc. have been dosed well with pesticides.
And your water..... What is in that?

Locally, we get the best vegetables we can. Local animal products are horrible except for seafood. There's really no such thing as "organic" here except for the stuff imported from the US.

We own a bakery so we're familiar with grains. We import Canadian and northern US grains from the best sources we can. Our water is all RO from a high end system that has given us no problems. I'll admit, I'm going to have the RO water tested to see what's in it. I should have done that long ago.

And if you want true 17th century beer, it would be something else. At that time they didn't use hops, stirred the wort with their magic yeast infected stick, let it ferment in questionable conditions, and I am sure made a large percentage of disgusting "beer".

I didn't say I want 17th century beer or anything else from that era. I want real food that someone from the 17th century would recognize and that doesn't include all the processed junk that fills the average US supermarket.

 

[Cyclman]

No better way to control what goes into your system than to prepare your own. Welcome to the group, from Colorado

 

[mongoose33]

As an engineer and software geek, purchasing and setting up the equipment has appeal, especially if I can automate the heck out of it. I like repeatability and consistency with as many variables reduced to known limits as possible.

With the one week of research I've done so far, a single level 3 tank all electric set up utilizing a HERMS approach and microprocessors, pumps, solenoids, etc for monitoring and control of timing, temperatures, and fluid movements is what I'm leaning towards.

A few things to add to the list to consider: first, if you can find someone who brews and would let you watch the process, it will pay you dividends. Brewing is not rocket science but neither is it simplistic. Failing that, perhaps YouTube might help.

Second, add fermentation temperature control to your list of things you'll want to provide. A refrigerator or freezer can fill the bill with some sort of temperature controller like an Inkbird 308. It's widely believed (and with good reason) that this is one of the greatest steps forward to great beer a new brewer can take.

Third, if you're already looking at electric brewing and controls and such (and naturally an engineer would do that ), you'll also want to look at kegging. I don't know whether or how easily you'll be able to access kegs and CO2 and such, but it also was a leap forward for me.

I really have little choice but to brew my own, like it or not. Anything shipped in to the island isn't handled properly for the most part. An ocean voyage in a hot container isn't the best environment for food in general and certainly not for beer. Even the local brews aren't consistent in flavor as temperatures experienced in transit along with the handling I've seen it get shows no respect for the product. I hope I can get into the brewing from the science perspective as that would hold my attention and curiosity.

I'm kind of laughing at this. You remind me of me. Over the years I've had "hobbies" ranging from publishing game theory for fantasy baseball to building custom golf clubs (moment of intertia and frequency-matched) to poker (reading people and probability--yeah!) to ballistics and reloading for firearms to....well, now, brewing.

It is as deep as you want it to be. I like deep. I like nuance, and just like with all my other hobbies over the years, I control the outcome and can try out various theories and ideas.

And I like what I brew better than what I can get at the local watering holes. THAT is its own reward, on top of the feeling of accomplishment and the joy of learning.

 

[Drk93TT]

I think we just need doritos

 

[NSMikeD]

For me, brewing is a chore, a pleasant chore to which I look forward. It's through brewing that I developed and continue to develop an appreciation of beer and what the brewer was seeking to achieve. It's uncovered a whole world of flavors, aromas and textures that once passed my tongue unnoticed.

Brewing is a love-hate relationship. We chase repeatability and consistency, but Mother Nature has a sense of humor.

I get that the HERMS set up will appeal the the engineer in you. I think the BIAB folks with nothing more than a burner, pot and bag might make an argument that they mastered the KISS method. And the eBIAB folks, I think, have engineered the heck of a simple process to geek paradise.

Regardless of your method, good beer can be made with simple known sourced ingredients that require no 21st century science fiction tinkering.

 

[RoatanBill]

What is the first beer you want to make?

No idea! Maybe a porter or stout. Maybe something lighter but certainly not a "light beer". I don't know what recipes are available and at this point that's a distant consideration. I'm certain I can find something I like.

I worked for the four breweries in New York during my college days; Schaeffer, Schlitz, Rheingold and Piels. Getting fresh unpasteurized beer from the tap room was a new experience. I wouldn't mind getting really fresh full bodied beer again and that's what I'm after. In those old days, their beer was beer, not the bastardized stuff the majors put out today.

There was a Czech brewery on the island for a while, but he made flat beer. Awful stuff. That's the only "micro brew" I've ever tasted. I'm certain I can make better.

 

[RoatanBill]

mongoose33:

I'm on a tiny island. If there's a brewer around here I certainly don't know about it. The Czech Brewer that was here packed up long ago as his stuff was uncarbonated swamp water. Truly awful stuff. Education will be via YouTube and other internet resources.

I didn't spec my whole list of what intrigues me so far, but temperature control both hot and cold as well as kegging is on the list. I probably have the best welding equipment on the island and already have two 125 CO2 cylinders for my MIG rig (Argon for TIG). I checked and it appears that welding gas is OK for beer. I've got a few 40's around that I could dedicate to CO2 only for beer.

Well, you remind me of me too. If you can call it a hobby, I own a Lancair IV-P. I reload 38, 9, 45, 44 Mag, but all the guns are still in Texas. I scuba here and do underwater metal detecting. The tourist beaches are a gold mine - literally. I just got into fermenting foods for their probiotic properties after I tasted some a friend made - delicious.

 

[Tommydee]

Are you inPR? Lived there for 3 years before my brewing hobby. Challenge in Carribean is cooling with very warm groundwater, and controlling fermentation temps. You'll need to set up a prechiller for your water with a tub of ice. And buy a used lay down freezer for a fermentation chamber.

Other option, drink medalla,, el presidente, and other beers down there, I don't think they are that bad. Or drink rum! If you're in PR I can send you to a few places to get decent beer.

Perfect temp for kombucha, and that is easy to keg, too!

 

[RoatanBill]

NSMikeD:

I suspect brewing will be a chore for me too, and is why I want to automate it to take some of the drudgery out of it.

I believe in tools, and as an engineer and software geek, I believe machines are there to free me up and can do a better job of paying attention and adjusting conditions than I can. I want to set up the rules and have the gadgetry carry out my instructions. It's just another computer I want to program.

Sure there's art in the process, but mess up the nuts and bolts of a brew and all the art in the world won't help. I want to eliminate as many variables as possible so as to concentrate on what remains. Experience by varying known conditions is the scientific method and I want to apply it to beer as much as possible.

 

[RoatanBill]

Tommydee:

I'm on Roatan, 40 miles off the coast of Honduras, hence my handle - RoatanBill

I've read about kombucha and the "mushroom" that is kept alive to start another batch, but I've never tasted any and therefore it's a complete unknown to me. For the present I'll stick with beer.

 

[McKnuckle]

It's just another computer I want to program.

Good luck with this. Brewing gadgets don't operate by themselves. You still have to store ingredients, measure them, add them correctly and at the right times, connect and disconnect a lot of hardware, and clean the gear meticulously. And that's just the "hot" part of brewing. Making beer successfully is even more about fermentation - yeast care and temperature control, moving liquids at the right time and with oxygen avoidance. Not a job for software...

How about the water on Roatan? Water is 90-odd percent of beer. Read a bit on the Brew Science forum here and learn how much trouble some people have with their water. Do you have a reverse osmosis system? Do your food/drink restrictions allow for the use of gypsum, calcium chloride, baking soda, and lactic acid to properly ameliorate your water for brewing?

This whole thing sounds like a fool's errand. There's got to be a commercial beer of some kind that will pass your ingredient test. You truly only have American macro-brewery products on the Honduran island of Roatan? No Mexican lagers? Why not visit the local brewery that you gave up on and just... ask them about their ingredients?

 

[Stillraining]

NSMikeD:

I suspect brewing will be a chore for me too, and is why I want to automate it to take some of the drudgery out of it.

I have yet to read about a full electric HERMS set up that takes less time to set up, then brew and then clean then a simple Pot and cooler mash tun or brew bag ....just saying.

You might be a prime candidate for a GrainFather or similar set up though.

 

[madscientist451]

NSMikeD:

I suspect brewing will be a chore for me too, and is why I want to automate it to take some of the drudgery out of it.



Sure there's art in the process, but mess up the nuts and bolts of a brew and all the art in the world won't help.

For me, the brewing is the pleasurable part, second only to actually drinking the homebrew. I do some things for a living that can truly be called "drudgery" and I don't put brewing chores in that category.
The actual "brewing" part of making beer is only one part of the process.
Making wort can be automated and computerized but it doesn't have to be.
Handling your wort, managing your yeast and fermentation and packaging the beer are all just as important as wort production.
Sourcing the ingredients, getting the equipment out, cleaning and proper sanitizing and putting everything away again are somewhat tiresome tasks. Having a dedicated space for brewing would make everything easier and quicker. Getting grains, hops and yeast out to your island is going to be a challenge. Chest freezers, temperature controllers, kegs, beer lines, taps, sanitizing chemicals, and the many small items are going to add up. Do you have a budget in mind for your home brewing equipment? Organic and non-GMO certified malts are available, but at a premium price. A google search turned up a couple of microbreweries in Honduras, perhaps they could provide some information on how to get ingredients/supplies.

 

[RoatanBill]

McKnuckle:

I guess you missed the parts about us owning a bakery on the island, our RO system that's been operational for years, my engineering and software background, and I admit there's art involved in the process. We've been storing products and measuring for recipes for years and supply the human input inappropriate for the machines we have that produce bread and pastries.

My wife is a Mathematician / Professional Software Developer that took a year off from our software consultancy business in Texas to attend the French Culinary Institute in NY for their bread program. Look it up and check the tuition. After diving on Roatan 3 years in a row, she wanted to start a bakery so we decided to retire from high tech. Beer is liquid bread.

Maybe you think IBM stands for 'It's Better Manually'. I believe in automation to help reduce errors, increase precision, properly time operations, automatically record vital statistics as an audit trail of what actually happened, etc. Automation helps. It doesn't hinder the process. It won't do 100% of what's required, but it will do whatever part it plays within known limits to produce as repeatable a process as possible.

Automation is hardware plus software integrated for the task. It's automation that will move liquids around at the right time and temperature with oxygen avoidance, and it will do it better than someone without such automation. It's a job for hardware plus software with the instructions provided by the operator/programmer which would be me.

I object to food coloring, preservatives, GMO frankenfood, emulsifiers, shelf extenders, BHP plastic and generally most chemicals nature didn't invent. When I worked for the four breweries in NY as a machine operator, no one would drink beer from a can. That's because we saw how it was produced. The beer was injected while the plastic lining was still solidifying from the can plant next door.

I try my best to avoid the things I believe lead to the cancer, diabetes, heart disease, etc epidemic the bulk of the society is destined for, including my parents and siblings.

Products are brought to Roatan in the hold of a very hot and very small ship. I know the ship owners - they're friends of mine. No one is bringing beer in via a refrigerated container. Once beer in a bottle hits 120 to 140 degrees, what do expect it to taste like? That's the situation here. I've tried Heineken, Negra Modelo, Carlsberg, and many other reputable beers and their taste is off. Heineken in particular tastes like bottled skunk.

We import food stuffs and use refer, frozen and regular containers appropriate to what it is we bring in. The law here says I can't import beer because I don't have the proper alcohol authorization. We already bring in grain, yeast, malts, etc for the bakery.

The four Honduran beers are transported here from the mainland regularly via ferry. From one load to the next, the taste is different. The taste from one bottle to its neighbor in the same 24 bottle case is different. I don't know what causes this, but there are dramatic differences in taste. I've put up with this but learning that these brews MAY also contain things that, to my mind, don't belong in beer, has led me to research brewing my own. Asking the local brewers what's in their beer is the fools errand as I wouldn't believe their answer should they provide one, and there's only one of the four I would even consider drinking.

 

[c673986]

Bill, I've got a commercial brewer buddy who get's most of his ingredients from a Bakery Distributor. You might ask your supplier if they can get you some malt, beer yeast, etc. That being said, you probably have access to a nice stovetop and a large pot at the bakery. All you need is to get your hands on some extract beer kits, a glass carboy, kegging kit, etc. to get started. Don't wait on building an electric brewery as it'll turnout much better than what you've got access to right now.

 

[RoatanBill]

Stillraining:

I've watched videos of people brewing. I think putting hot water in a plastic cooler and then eventually drinking it is nuts. I've seen people use aluminum pots to boil their wort; again, nuts. It's bad enough that med grade silicone hoses are required, but everything else should be glass or food grade stainless steel. Leaching out chemicals from plastic or using a highly reactive metal for food production is ignoring evidence linking such activities to illnesses.

I like the HERMS set up because of the control, not any time savings or clean up considerations. Having the HLT provide the heat the mash needs in a controlled way so the mash has no chance of hitting a hot coil is the attraction. Being able to pump the liquid through the grains just makes a lot of sense, at least to me. I don't think people that set up such systems ever take them down to store away. Once up, they are a semi permanent fixture occupying space in a brew area.

I watched one video featuring the Grainfather and another set up done by an Australian, I believe. From that video alone I ruled out the Grainfather. The controller is too primitive, the boil too vigorous, the plumbing awkward, etc. I'm leaning towards 3 20 gallon Blichmann units, pumps, solenoids, a SS Brewtech fermentor leading to kegs in a repurposed chest freezer or actual keg refer. But, that's just my initial impression. Lots more research to be done.

 

[mongoose33]

Let me note something I've observed in people new to brewing. While you're right that automating things might help in creating consistency, don't forget this: if all this was so easy, why is it so hard for new breweries to get it all correct?

I've had a lot of beer from craft breweries that I thought was terrible--I'm not talking about beer styles I don't like, I'm talking about bad flavor. I can judge and rate a Belgian reasonably fairly, I believe, but I don't care for them. But I can tell you if they're a good representation of the style despite me not being a fan of that style.

So if all this was so easy--and automation is standard in most craft and small breweries--then why does the beer not turn out as often as it does?

There is a learning curve here. I don't doubt you can figure it out, not at all. But it's not the same as wiring a temperature controller which, if you follow the plans correctly, will work.

Every system is different. While much of this is objective, not all of it is. One measure I use for my own beers is the "did they go back for another" test--most people will be complimentary because they don't want to offend you, but the real test is whether they want more.

I just kegged a beer last week using a method I swore I'd never do again (i.e., changing multiple elements of the brew), and silly me, I did. I'm trying to clone/replicate a flavor profile/mouth feel/finish of a beer I once loved but whose recipe has changed.

I learned (I think) that I needed to use S-05 instead of S-04, US Golding Hops instead of East Kent Golding hops, and I changed the crystal malt from 1# of 60L to 1.5# of 40L.

Well. Silly me. Again. Changing 3 things means I can't figure out why it doesn't do anything well. It's drinkable, but not exceptional. I'm hoping further conditioning will help, and it probably will, but I hope that this time I learned my lesson. It's stuff like this that no amount of automation can overcome--there is the brewer's art involved, and that's that.

My 2 cents.

 

[normonster]

....If I can get a few recipes for beers that I like, I'd be happy and would view brewing as more than a chore. I like Guinness, but would also prefer something a bit less heavy on occasion.

As an engineer and software geek, purchasing and setting up the equipment has appeal, especially if I can automate the heck out of it. I like repeatability and consistency with as many variables reduced to known limits as possible.

With the one week of research I've done so far, a single level 3 tank all electric set up utilizing a HERMS approach and microprocessors, pumps, solenoids, etc for monitoring and control of timing, temperatures, and fluid movements is what I'm leaning towards.

BTW - I like your tag line. I laughed out loud the first time I read it. Brilliant!

If that is how you feel I vote for the Breumeister 50L and the morebeer heated/cooled conical along with a nice kegging system.

 

[McKnuckle]

Alright, fantastic. I guess I did miss the bakery part - my bad. But I doubt that the first time you baked bread, you did it with industrial computer-assisted machinery, right? You probably learned the basics of baking and food chemistry first, then adapted machinery to produce bread and other baked goods at the scale required for your business.

Anyway, I am not a Luddite. I have made a living as a software engineer for nearly 30 years. I wish you luck, and I am sure interested to follow where this goes! Just know that your perspectives on which materials, ingredients, and processes are "crazy" might be perceived as a bit extreme around here. But hey, that's what makes the world go 'round.

 

[normonster]

By the way you sound like the kind of person most people avoid like the plague. Jesus. Lighten up.

 

[kombat]

By the way you sound like the kind of person most people avoid like the plague. Jesus. Lighten up.

+1

I also laughed at the part where he claims to put a high value on research, yet thinks there's anything wrong with GMO food. Increased crop yield per acre, less dependence on pesticides and herbicides, higher drought tolerance, and not a shred of evidence of any harmful health effects whatsoever? Meanwhile 20,000+ people starve to death every day? That's a no-brainer.

 

[normonster]

+1

I also laughed at the part where he claims to put a high value on research, yet thinks there's anything wrong with GMO food. Increased crop yield per acre, less dependence on pesticides and herbicides, higher drought tolerance, and not a shred of evidence of any harmful health effects whatsoever? Meanwhile 20,000+ people starve to death every day? That's a no-brainer.

I agree, mostly. The danger of GMO food IMO is not that it is unhealthy, it's that the gene modifications could potentially get "loose" and cause issues that way. That said, I'll eat the stuff, and probably do, everyday, but I would like that label to tell me when I am eating it so I'm at least aware.

 

[Pappers_]

Add me to the list of those who think you might benefit from walking before running, regarding brewing automation. But hey, to each his own.

 

[RoatanBill]

I doubt that the first time you baked bread, you did it with industrial computer-assisted machinery, right?

Wrong. Sold the house, sold the cars, moved to the island and ordered, sight unseen, about $85K of bakery equipment all from their specs and write ups we saw from existing bakers. Been using that equipment for 11 years now. Only regret one purchase - a mixer with a 3 phase motor fronted by a controller that used 240 single phase. Had I known it was a frankenstein electrically I would have never purchased it. It got fried during one of the thousands of power outages and brown outs we've experienced. The local electrical grid is very poor.

The wife knows about baking and knew what she wanted, so we ordered it. I really don't see what else we should have done or could have done. At some point you have to take a leap of faith in your own judgement.

Bought a new 76 Vette without ever sitting in one. Looked at the specs and bought it. In the early 80's I purchased a BMW 318is out of Phoenix without ever sitting in one. Flew to Phoenix on business and drove it home to Plano, Tx almost non stop. Bought an airplane on spec. Recently bought a TIG welder and water cooler (Everlast) plus a plasma cutter (Hypertherm) all on spec. I've never laid eyes on a TIG machine or a plasma cutter before mine showed up. I'll do the same with brewery equipment.

 

[RoatanBill]

By the way you sound like the kind of person most people avoid like the plague. Jesus. Lighten up.

I believe you're referring to what's commonly known as being politically correct. I prefer straight talk, no deception and if expressing my opinion triggers someone, I don't see that as my problem.

Ask me a question and I'll give you an honest answer with no regard as to how you might like it. What is so wrong in that?

 

[soccerdad]

The OP mentions German purity law, so bear in mind that it was the German's (primarily) that brought beer brewing to the Americas. Mexico had some sort of a fermented corn beer - probably like atol but fermented, but brewing beer as we know it came from Europe and likely follows some form of purity standard if not law. Yes - adjuncts like corn and rice are likely used now, but depleted uranium is reserved for only the special few. If you like baking, you will very likely enjoy brewing. And if you can import thousands of dollars of baking equipment, you should have no problem importing all organic ingredients. Check out sevenbridges for those. https://www.breworganic.com/

 

[Morrey]

Everyone has their own reason for wanting to get into brewing. I'd suspect the number one reason a new brewer would give as the reason they are starting is they feel they can save money brewing at home. BUT, I'd also suspect when asked the same reason one year from their start date....cost savings wouldn't even come up as a reason. We all know the deal when it comes to this hobby and the stuff we all simply have to have.

A year later, that same brewer is likely to tell us the reason they brew is the control they now have over their product and quite frankly I (they) make better beer than can be bought. And sure, organic is a consideration to some, while to others, not a second thought. But now we are back to the control we have when we brew our own beer and the ingredients we use in it. I just like the beer I make and have a heck of a good time making it! Yeow!!

 

[Morrey]

There is a learning curve here.

That is a six word statement that summarizes the art of brewing in a nutshell.

 

[Pappers_]

I believe you're referring to what's commonly known as being politically correct. I prefer straight talk, no deception and if expressing my opinion triggers someone, I don't see that as my problem.

Ask me a question and I'll give you an honest answer with no regard as to how you might like it. What is so wrong in that?

The other side of saying whatever you think is truth without self-filter is you need to expect other people to respond in kind to you. If you're going to insist that other people not be thin skinned, you need to take your own advice.

That being said, we're not that kind of community. This is not a wide-open, anything-goes, troll-tastic internet board - we're a community that strives to treat each other with a level of respect and decorum. I think, for an introduction thread, this discussion has gone as far as it can and am closing it.

We have lots of specific subforums here - on beginning brewing, on all-grain brewing, on automation, on DIY projects, etc. Feel free to browse those and post any questions you might have in the appropriate forum.