What beers do you recommended to train your pallet?

[Theepobe]

How do you determine flavors and characteristics of beers by taste? Could you provide me of examples of beers, and aromas, tastes, and characteristics you get from beers. This way I can see if I can pick them up, or understand more.

Also any literature on the subject would be great too! Blogs, or books.

 

[Qhrumphf]

 

[Theepobe]

Thanks this is useful

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

How do you determine flavors and characteristics of beers by taste?

By getting together as a small group of people, assuming these people want to discuss beer flavors, and discuss what is being tasted.

By find examples of other food that provides similar tastes to the flavor wheel (mentioned above). For example, if some mentions "toasted sour dough bread", that description may not be helpful if you have not tasted sour dough bread.

Could you provide me of examples of beers, and aromas, tastes, and characteristics you get from beers.

BJCP style guidelines have a list commercial examples for each style.

Craft beer descriptions often come with descriptors (check the web site).

Also any literature on the subject would be great too! Blogs, or books.

BJCP training materials may be helpful.

Zymurgy magazine has a long running "commercial calibration" column.

"Tasting Beer" by Randy Mosher.

"Complete Beer Course" by Joshua Bernstein.

 

[Soulshine2]

How do you determine flavors and characteristics of beers by taste? Could you provide me of examples of beers, and aromas, tastes, and characteristics you get from beers. This way I can see if I can pick them up, or understand more.

Also any literature on the subject would be great too! Blogs, or books.

go to a good multi-handle taphouse and order a flight of ipa, stout, lager,ale...or even british,irish, german and 'merican.

 

[Qhrumphf]

The BJCP exam judge exam study guide has a section with procedures for doctoring beers to show various flaws.

You can also get various doctoring kits to do the same. I've used sets from Siebel and Aroxa, and they're both fantastic (but not cheap). They are well suited to doing as a group (say with a homebrew club), and splitting up the cost. Too expensive and wasteful to do solo.

In either case, you take a neutral beer (Miller Lite is my preference since it's more neutral than Bud Light or Coors Light), and dose it at the right ratio (the kits IIRC are designed to be added to 1L of beer, the BJCP self doctoring can be tailored a bit more). Then compare dosed sample vs an unadulterated control.

 

[Theepobe]

By getting together as a small group of people, assuming these people want to discuss beer flavors, and discuss what is being tasted.

By find examples of other food that provides similar tastes to the flavor wheel (mentioned above). For example, if some mentions "toasted sour dough bread", that description may not be helpful if you have not tasted sour dough bread.


BJCP style guidelines have a list commercial examples for each style.

Craft beer descriptions often come with descriptors (check the web site).


BJCP training materials may be helpful.

Zymurgy magazine has a long running "commercial calibration" column.

"Tasting Beer" by Randy Mosher.

"Complete Beer Course" by Joshua Bernstein.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

 

[applescrap]

Great question. I have a few thoughts. I saw a video of a scent expert who was smelling people's breaths. I am no expert and not trained, but I know that many train by blind smelling and tasting things. You smell and taste everything on the above wheel and train your palate to smell and taste them. You can get really good. It's a focus and attention thing. I am sure there are tips on that in the bjcp or other guides. I am pretty good with wine flavors like dark cherry, chocolate, tobacco, currant, and leather. Every time I drink wine I taste for flavors and check reviews or bottle to see how right I am. I dont do that with beer. I am sure if I did I would get better. I did get better with wine over the years.

Another idea would be to taste all the beers in every style category and take notes or whatever, over and over. Maybe tasting them two to three times over a day. I am sure there are guidelines for when and how often to taste. Using palate cleansers and the like. I am from fort Collins and have been drinking craft beer since I was probably 16, graduated at 17 years old, so I know I was drinking craft my junior year. So I am close to 30 years of craft drinking at age 44. So at least I have that going for me.

I want to implore this though, the great count basie said it's either good or bad. That's how I judge beer. Good, bad, and great. Maybe some inbetween. Also, and this is a fact, like it or not, feel insulted or not, brulosophy with now well over 200 blind tests have extrapolated the data multiple times. Turns out, your average beer drinker and seasoned bjcp judge score the same. I use my wife to judge my beers, I trust her palate and opinions. It makes sense, women have better sense of smell and taste and also she hasn't chugged cigars on the golf course for 25 years. I am not saying judges aren't good at what they do or knowledgable when style is known or important. Just that when push comes to shove it's hard blind. There are numerous stories supporting this. But yeah, the real trained palate can detect in smell and taste, that entire wheel. You have some work cut out for you, but it could be fun if you love it. Examples are on that wheel for nearly every category. Overall, I could be entirely wrong and hope and expect some correction if I am. Except for the brulosophy, because that's fact.

 

[Theepobe]

Great question. I have a few thoughts. I saw a video of a scent expert who was smelling people's breaths. I am no expert and not trained, but I know that many train by blind smelling and tasting things. You smell and taste everything on the above wheel and train your palate to smell and taste them. You can get really good. It's a focus and attention thing. I am sure there are tips on that in the bjcp or other guides. I am pretty good with wine flavors like dark cherry, chocolate, tobacco, currant, and leather. Every time I drink wine I taste for flavors and check reviews or bottle to see how right I am. I dont do that with beer. I am sure if I did I would get better. I did get better with wine over the years.

Another idea would be to taste all the beers in every style category and take notes or whatever, over and over. Maybe tasting them two to three times over a day. I am sure there are guidelines for when and how often to taste. Using palate cleansers and the like. I am from fort Collins and have been drinking craft beer since I was probably 16, graduated at 17 years old, so I know I was drinking craft my junior year. So I am close to 30 years of craft drinking at age 44. So at least I have that going for me.

I want to implore this though, the great count basie said it's either good or bad. That's how I judge beer. Good, bad, and great. Maybe some inbetween. Also, and this is a fact, like it or not, feel insulted or not, brulosophy with now well over 200 blind tests have extrapolated the data multiple times. Turns out, your average beer drinker and seasoned bjcp judge score the same. I use my wife to judge my beers, I trust her palate and opinions. It makes sense, women have better sense of smell and taste and also she hasn't chugged cigars on the golf course for 25 years. I am not saying judges aren't good at what they do or knowledgable when style is known or important. Just that when push comes to shove it's hard blind. There are numerous stories supporting this. But yeah, the real trained palate can detect in smell and taste, that entire wheel. You have some work cut out for you, but it could be fun if you love it. Examples are on that wheel for nearly every category. Overall, I could be entirely wrong and hope and expect some correction if I am. Except for the brulosophy, because that's fact.

Thank you for the indepth reply. Could you link the brulosophy article? Just so I can read it through. Thanks!

 

[Theepobe]

The BJCP exam judge exam study guide has a section with procedures for doctoring beers to show various flaws.

You can also get various doctoring kits to do the same. I've used sets from Siebel and Aroxa, and they're both fantastic (but not cheap). They are well suited to doing as a group (say with a homebrew club), and splitting up the cost. Too expensive and wasteful to do solo.

In either case, you take a neutral beer (Miller Lite is my preference since it's more neutral than Bud Light or Coors Light), and dose it at the right ratio (the kits IIRC are designed to be added to 1L of beer, the BJCP self doctoring can be tailored a bit more). Then compare dosed sample vs an unadulterated control.

Interesting I'll have to find out more about those doctoring kits. Thank you for the reply!

 

[applescrap]

Thank you for the indepth reply. Could you link the brulosophy article? Just so I can read it through. Thanks!

I dont know if or where an article is, but I heard Marshall say that on at least three podcasts I can think of. Check the brew network or is it nation podcasts with brulosophy. Edit, he states numbers on the podcast so I am sure there is data somewhere on his site. And two this is only food for thought and imo should not be explored anymore for fear of taking away from the hard work, experience, and expertise bjcp judges are and provide.

 

[applescrap]

Interesting I'll have to find out more about those doctoring kits. Thank you for the reply!

Marshall has tested those on brulosophy.com. many people blind given whatever circumstances cant even taste some of those flaws blind. I would be afraid of never not tasting them to some degree or another ever again. But yeah great way to know.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Anybody have thoughts in Randy Mosher's "Tasting Beer" book. I have heard him talk a few times on podcasts on this topic, so this book is on my wish list (still have unopened copies of "Simple Homebrewing" and "The New IPA" to get to first).

 

[Theepobe]

Anybody have thoughts in Randy Mosher's "Tasting Beer" book. I have heard him talk a few times on podcasts on this topic, so this book is on my wish list (still have unopened copies of "Simple Homebrewing" and "The New IPA" to get to first).

Would love to see follow up on this

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

thoughts in Randy Mosher's "Tasting Beer" book

Would love to see follow up on this

When it is on sale for $3 (ebook format), "Tasting Beer" (as well as "Mastering Homebrew") is an easy purchase decision.

IMO, this is another great book from Randy Mosher. Check the amazon.com overview / review information for additional details. If you have questions, I should be around to offer opinions.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

"Simple Homebrewing" and "The New IPA"

IMO, two good books (published in 2019) that will influence online discussion for the next couple of years. I will do a 2nd read on both later this summer; the amount of information on hop oils in "The New IPA" will likely require some deeper study / very careful reading on my part.

 

[applescrap]

Great book reccomendations. Keep in mind though that when done reading the work I outlined above must be done or there is no growth. This is a hands on (nose, taste) practice and there is no short cut to the work. Years of thoughtful, careful tasting and sniffing, and note taking is the only way. Like learning to play guitar. There are great guitar books, but they only have value if you use the instrument. Just some more food for thought.

 

[Theepobe]

Great book reccomendations. Keep in mind though that when done reading the work I outlined above must be done or there is no growth. This is a hands on (nose, taste) practice and there is no short cut to the work. Years of thoughtful, careful tasting and sniffing, and note taking is the only way. Like learning to play guitar. There are great guitar books, but they only have value if you use the instrument. Just some more food for thought.

Undoubtedly but if you fumble around with a guitar and no guide you won't learn to play properly or well per say

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Keep in mind though that when done reading [... action must be taken ...] or there is no growth.

Generally, I find that we're here to discuss ideas on how to have fun brewing great beer with our often limited hobby time. Occasionally, I find people who 1) try to brew with no spare time or 2) take an approach of "the best or nothing" - but they can also help move the discussion forward.

I feel that books offer a single source/voice of well curated information which we can use as a baseline for moving the discussion forward.

For those who decide to "piece it together" using the internet, there is that recently posted (apparently rather mind-numbing ) list of questions (currently 1st draft) that can be used to verify a complete set of brew day instructions.

Your earlier replies had many good points.

In closing, "kits get us started, discussion moves us forward".