Weyermann crystal malts srm (caraaroma)

[ratinator]

So I am working on getting the perfect red for my irish red, but I think what's killing me is that the large range of colors with crystal malts such as caraaroma (130-170srm). I realized beersmith had the malt in at 178srm which throw off my color when designing the recipe. Does anyone know if the sacks have the srm on the bag or what's the best way to predict the color? I know I can change the srm in beersmith, but I don't know what to change it to.

 

[Big Monk]

So I am working on getting the perfect red for my irish red, but I think what's killing me is that the large range of colors with crystal malts such as caraaroma (130-170srm). I realized beersmith had the malt in at 178srm which throw off my color when designing the recipe. Does anyone know if the sacks have the srm on the bag or what's the best way to predict the color? I know I can change the srm in beersmith, but I don't know what to change it to.

CaraAroma is about 150 °L.

 

[thehaze]

Directly from Weyermann: https://www.weyermann.de/cz/bmprodukte_neu.asp?idkat=193&umenue=yes&idmenue=37&sprache=2

 

[Big Monk]

Directly from Weyermann: https://www.weyermann.de/cz/bmprodukte_neu.asp?idkat=193&umenue=yes&idmenue=37&sprache=2

That's what he's trying to sort out. Weyermann only gives a range for their typical analysis.

Does anyone know if the sacks have the srm on the bag or what's the best way to predict the color?

I looked up my Weyermann malt analysis under CaraAroma and have the following:

For the lot numbers, Q = 2016, R = 2017, S = 2018.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

So I am working on getting the perfect red for my irish red, but I think what's killing me is that the large range of colors with crystal malts such as caraaroma (130-170srm). I realized beersmith had the malt in at 178srm which throw off my color when designing the recipe. Does anyone know if the sacks have the srm on the bag or what's the best way to predict the color? I know I can change the srm in beersmith, but I don't know what to change it to.

The color of Caraaroma is not generally measured in units of SRM, but rather in Lovibond (L) or EBC units. The range of 130 to 170 is scaled in Lovibond units, not SRM. The mid-range would be 150L. Color equivalencies for Caraaroma are as follow:

150L = 203 SRM = 400 EBC (all rounded)

Or using RPIScotty's averages for Caraaroma:

155L = 209 SRM = 412 EBC (all rounded)

 

[ratinator]

The color of Caraaroma is not generally measured in units of SRM, but rather in Lovibond (L) or EBC units. The range of 130 to 170 is scaled in Lovibond units, not SRM. The mid-range would be 150L. Color equivalencies for Caraaroma are as follow:

150L = 203 SRM = 400 EBC (all rounded)

Or using RPIScotty's averages for Caraaroma:

155L = 209 SRM = 412 EBC (all rounded)

I realized that, I completely understand lovibond and srm. I am more concerned about if the sacks or my lhbs would know of the caraaroma is 130 or 170, because a pound at either end could change my beer srm 2-3 shades which will knock me away from the 16 srm I am going for. I guess I will just have to take the 155average

 

[ratinator]

That's what he's trying to sort out. Weyermann only gives a range for their typical analysis.


I looked up my Weyermann malt analysis under CaraAroma and have the following:

View attachment 629100

For the lot numbers, Q = 2016, R = 2017, S = 2018.

Do you have the same analysis for carared?

 

[Big Monk]

Do you have the same analysis for carared?

Yup. Give me a few minutes.

 

[Big Monk]

I realized that, I completely understand lovibond and srm. I am more concerned about if the sacks or my lhbs would know of the caraaroma is 130 or 170, because a pound at either end could change my beer srm 2-3 shades which will knock me away from the 16 srm I am going for. I guess I will just have to take the 155average

If it makes you feel any better, it’s from actual malt analysis sheets directly from Weyermann.

 

[Big Monk]

Do you have the same analysis for carared?

 

[ratinator]

If it makes you feel any better, it’s from actual malt analysis sheets directly from Weyermann.

Where does one aquire these?

 

[Big Monk]

Where does one aquire these?

You scan the barcode on the malt sack and it brings you directly to a PDF of the malt analysis.

I also supplement my own with analysis from Cryer Malt.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Or if you don't have full sacks of Weyermann malt to scan you can go to this website, where they have hundreds of lots of the various Weyermann malts analysis data sheets available for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.cryermalt.co.nz/malt-lot-analysis-weyermann/

 

[BigEd]

I realized that, I completely understand lovibond and srm. I am more concerned about if the sacks or my lhbs would know of the caraaroma is 130 or 170, because a pound at either end could change my beer srm 2-3 shades which will knock me away from the 16 srm I am going for. I guess I will just have to take the 155average

For the most part all color numbers you see on crystal/caramel malts are averages. Bear in mind that while CaraAroma is a wonderful specialty malt it has a fairly aggressive flavor profile. Adding a pound of it to even a 10 gallon batch is going to add strong dried fruit and dark toffee flavors. An "Irish Red" is pretty much just a bitter with a color twitch. I'd suggest going with a 5% addition of medium UK crystal malt (~55L) and then add 1/2 to 1 oz of roasted barley or dark chocolate malt. The small addition of dark malt is the best way to redden it up IMO.

 

[ratinator]

For the most part all color numbers you see on crystal/caramel malts are averages. Bear in mind that while CaraAroma is a wonderful specialty malt it has a fairly aggressive flavor profile. Adding a pound of it to even a 10 gallon batch is going to add strong dried fruit and dark toffee flavors. An "Irish Red" is pretty much just a bitter with a color twitch. I'd suggest going with a 5% addition of medium UK crystal malt (~55L) and then add 1/2 to 1 oz of roasted barley or dark chocolate malt. The small addition of dark malt is the best way to redden it up IMO.

I appreciate the suggestion, but I have made about 8 varations of my red and have been very happy with the flavors. I am however not happy with my orangey brownish red color. My beersmith having my caraaroma at 178lv is the reason why so I am trying to get a better input for it

I know it sounds dumb, but I want my red to be red by using red malts. I don't like adding a black malt to make red, it's like cheating with using extract for fruit flavor

I don't use a whole pound, but the raging irish red in this forum does and I never get overwhelming flavors from caraaroma

 

[BigEd]

I don't like adding a black malt to make red, it's like cheating with using extract for fruit flavor

Black malt does make red beer. Hold up a glass of Guinness Stout and shine a bright flashlight through it from behind. Guinness is actually deep red in color.

 

[ratinator]

Black malt does make red beer. Hold up a glass of Guinness Stout and shine a bright flashlight through it from behind. Guinness is actually deep red in color.

No disagreement there, I know it make red beer but it feels like adding food coloring to me. Just a personal preference

 

[Oginme]

No disagreement there, I know it make red beer but it feels like adding food coloring to me. Just a personal preference

As someone who has spent 30+ years doing color development and matching, all I can say is get over it. Irish red ales and lagers get their reddish color from the use of black malts or roasted barley. When it comes to developing color, the colorist uses the best tools available to find the quickest, easiest route to the desired end product. It is not 'cheating', it is a pragmatic approach.

Aside from that, I have found through many variations of Irish red ales that the combination of a good English pale malt and roasted barley also gives the sensation of caramel flavors. Too light, IMHO, to rely on those alone, but still it is there.

 

[ratinator]

As someone who has spent 30+ years doing color development and matching, all I can say is get over it. Irish red ales and lagers get their reddish color from the use of black malts or roasted barley. When it comes to developing color, the colorist uses the best tools available to find the quickest, easiest route to the desired end product. It is not 'cheating', it is a pragmatic approach.

Aside from that, I have found through many variations of Irish red ales that the combination of a good English pale malt and roasted barley also gives the sensation of caramel flavors. Too light, IMHO, to rely on those alone, but still it is there.

Here is 2 varations of my red not using any black malts. The main problem I had is when I bought my robobrew and had to alter my beersmith recipes which led to my caraaroma problem. I don't have to get over it l, it's my beer and I like the colors and flavors these malts give. Your not providing my thread with anything other an argument. I am using these malts, this thread to meant to get to the bottom of caraaroma and its color

 

[Big Monk]

Here is 2 varations of my red not using any black malts. The main problem I had is when I bought my robobrew and had to alter my beersmith recipes which led to my caraaroma problem. I don't have to get over it l, it's my beer and I like the colors and flavors these malts give. Your not providing my thread with anything other an argument. I am using these malts, this thread to meant to get to the bottom of caraaroma and its colorView attachment 629203View attachment 629204

Go with the value I gave you.

It's based on a ton of recent actual malt analysis sheets for CaraAroma.

You can see that while it is an average, it is an average of 15-20 different lots that all have around 155L for color.

 

[ratinator]

Go with the value I gave you.

It's based on a ton of recent actual malt analysis sheets for CaraAroma.

You can see that while it is an average, it is an average of 15-20 different lots that all have around 155L for color.

I have done that. Just need to clear some kegs out so I can brew. Thanks again

 

[Oginme]

Here is 2 varations of my red not using any black malts. The main problem I had is when I bought my robobrew and had to alter my beersmith recipes which led to my caraaroma problem. I don't have to get over it l, it's my beer and I like the colors and flavors these malts give. Your not providing my thread with anything other an argument. I am using these malts, this thread to meant to get to the bottom of caraaroma and its color

Thanks for the redirect. My comment was in direct response to your comment of "but it feels like adding food coloring to me". I am glad you are comfortable with the beer you produced, it does look like a rich red shade.

 

[ratinator]

Go with the value I gave you.

It's based on a ton of recent actual malt analysis sheets for CaraAroma.

You can see that while it is an average, it is an average of 15-20 different lots that all have around 155L for color.

Sorry to buy you one last time, do you have analysis for weyermann melanoiden?

 

[Big Monk]

Sorry to buy you one last time, do you have analysis for weyermann melanoiden?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

In my opinion 14 SRM is just about the ideal overall finished batch color from which to perceive a nice redness. It is the batch color that I target for my Irish Red's.

 

[ratinator]

In my opinion 14 SRM is just about the ideal overall finished batch color from which to perceive a nice redness. It is the batch color that I target for my Irish Red's.

I usually shoot for 16 SRM. That way if there is some color flucuation I end up in the 14-18 range. I would rather it be reddish brown than orangey red. But again, that is my personal preference