21%+ Barleywine

[Rundorig76]

I was reading about Whitelabs super high gravity 099. My first question is how drinkable a 20%+ beer might be and how I can improve this recipie for the best taste? Has anyone used this strain before?

Beowulf Barleywine
OG 1.205 FG 1.041
ABV 21.5%
SRM 24
IBU 27

12 lbs Marris Otter DME
12 lbs Munich LME
4 lbs belgian dark candi sugar
2 lbs brown sugar
1 lbs belgian aromatic malt
8 oz gambrinus honey malt
8 oz caramunich
8 oz biscut malt

.5 oz simcoe 30 min boil
.5 oz simcoe 15 min boil
.5 oz hallertau 15 min boil
.5 hallertau 5 min boil
1 oz crystal 5 min boil
Dryhop 1 oz of simcoe and hallertau for 7 days.

I want a good deep malty taste with minimal hop bitterness, but with maximum hop aroma. I wanted the hops to mostly have some earthy, floral, noble hoppyness with a little extra kick from the piney simecoe. I have never made a recipie with an abv this high, could this turn out way too sweet or dry? Thoughts on extra nurtients?

 

[brewjamin_Franklin]

Forget the dry hop, you are going to have to age that for so long to mellow it out, you won't even notice it.

 

[mrbunn]

I would seriously consider making a small batch of something that heavy. I find a one or two gallon batch is a great way find out "what if" without shelling out $100 for ingredients that may or may not pan out...

 

[Rundorig76]

Thanks both of those comments make sense. Should I move the dry hopps to the last 5 mins of boil or at flame out instead?

 

[one-L]

Wouldn't move the dryhops to flameout, would just hold them and wait until you're done bulk aging (assuming you are), and then dryhop for like the last week or two before bottling. Otherwise, folks are right and you aren't going to have any of that dryhop goodness left.

 

[2bluewagons]

There are very few 20% beers out there, and there might be a reason for it, that being it is difficult to even pull off in the first place, much less make it drinkable. I'm all for climbing a mountain just because it's there, but sometimes there are smaller hills nearby that can make for a pretty darned pleasant hike.

If you can follow my shaky metaphor, maybe consider trying this around the 10-15% ABV range and working from there.

If you are still set on it, well go for it! But do some searching on here for 120 minute IPA clone attempts. Staggered sugar additions are the only way to get the ABV up that high. Any yeast you put directly into a 1.205 wort will be dead very soon.

No matter what you do on the sugar/extract front, you definitely need more hopping. You want malty, not overly sweet. With all that extract (and aromatic, I like it! Bump it up to 2-4% of the total grain bill for a real malt punch), the maltiness will be there no matter what, but that 1.041 FG will need some balance. I wouldn't shy away from a bittering level of 100 IBU or more (calculated).

 

[TANSTAAFB]

My thoughts exactly. You need more hops to reach a perceived balance in the final product, especially one that will likely have to sit for a year before it is good. I would FWH and whirlpool hop this beer to get smooth but solid bitterness and great hop aroma. Reserve the dry hops until a week before bottling. I would not go any lower than 75ish IBU but you really need to look at the bittering ratio.

 

[Rundorig76]

Thanks for the input I didn't think getting 21% would be easy.

For fermentables:
What if I cut the marris otter dme and the munich lme to 6 lbs each, and cut the belgian candi sugar to 3 lbs. This should drop the abv to 12.7% and raise the belgian aromatic to 5.1% of total fermentables.

For Hops:
Add 1 oz of hallertau as a FWH
Add 1.5 oz of german magnum for 60 min boil
Move dry hops to a whirlpool hop, and dry hop way later if needed.
This would bring IBU to 91 without the extra from the FWH and whirpool

What is the best way to stagger the sugar additions? How long do you typically whirlpool for? I haven't tried this yet.

 

[jglazer]

This is a really good blog post about how to brew DFH 120 and it goes into the steps on how to add addition sugar throughout the fermentation phase. Def a must read before you brew this:

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/03/dogfish-head-120-minute-ipa-clone.html

And then he has another post to give additional tips about brewing a huge beer:

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/03/120-minute-your-newborn-baby.html

 

[Rundorig76]

Awesome thanks. Lots of good info

 

[BigFloyd]

Curious as to what are you planning on doing for yeast cell count. Brew a 5-gallon batch of 1.040-1.050 beer first and dump the BW wort on the whole cake?

 

[Akavango]

The other thing you should consider, is carbonation. Do you plan to keg it or bottle condition it. If Bottle conditioning, forget about it it won't work. There isn't a yeast strong enough not even champagne yeast to bottle condition properly.Now if you are going to keg it and force carb it then it is another matter and is doable.


I made a DFH120 clone last year that reached 19.5% and it would have been very drinkable if I had a keg but a strong flat beer in a bottle is not really what i was hoping for.

So think about that before you go for it.

 

[Rundorig76]

Thanks for the info, I guess ill have to wait to brew this or any other monster untill I have expanded my brewing equipment.

 

[logan3825]

Thanks for the input I didn't think getting 21% would be easy.

For fermentables:
What if I cut the marris otter dme and the munich lme to 6 lbs each, and cut the belgian candi sugar to 3 lbs. This should drop the abv to 12.7% and raise the belgian aromatic to 5.1% of total fermentables.

For Hops:
Add 1 oz of hallertau as a FWH
Add 1.5 oz of german magnum for 60 min boil
Move dry hops to a whirlpool hop, and dry hop way later if needed.
This would bring IBU to 91 without the extra from the FWH and whirpool

What is the best way to stagger the sugar additions? How long do you typically whirlpool for? I haven't tried this yet.

With that amount of malt extract and that much candi sugar, your beer will end up under 1.010. I made a barleywine with 12lb Marris Otter LME and 1.5lb table sugar and it finished at 1.015.

 

[agcorry00]

A 12% is very doable, and might be a nice intermediate step.

 

[logan3825]

12% isn't all that hard to do. You shouldn't even have to use any special yeast. Just make sure you pitch enough yeast. 6LB LME and 6 LB DME plus 2 LB sugar should get you to about 12%. 2 packs of US-05 should be enough yeast. Actually that may be close to the limit for US-05. Not sure about the alcohol tolerance of S-04. That might be another option.

 

[agcorry00]

I've pitched two packs of US-05 before and had fine results. I recommend rehydrating the yeast as per the package instructions.

 

[logan3825]

I pitched 2 without rehydrating and had good results. Maybe I was lucky but it turned out ok.

 

[Cheeto]

I was reading about Whitelabs super high gravity 099. My first question is how drinkable a 20%+ beer might be and how I can improve this recipie for the best taste? Has anyone used this strain before?

Beowulf Barleywine
OG 1.205 FG 1.041
ABV 21.5%
SRM 24
IBU 27

12 lbs Marris Otter DME
12 lbs Munich LME
4 lbs belgian dark candi sugar
2 lbs brown sugar
1 lbs belgian aromatic malt
8 oz gambrinus honey malt
8 oz caramunich
8 oz biscut malt

.5 oz simcoe 30 min boil
.5 oz simcoe 15 min boil
.5 oz hallertau 15 min boil
.5 hallertau 5 min boil
1 oz crystal 5 min boil
Dryhop 1 oz of simcoe and hallertau for 7 days.

I want a good deep malty taste with minimal hop bitterness, but with maximum hop aroma. I wanted the hops to mostly have some earthy, floral, noble hoppyness with a little extra kick from the piney simecoe. I have never made a recipie with an abv this high, could this turn out way too sweet or dry? Thoughts on extra nurtients?

Let me just get this out of the way first..

I wouldn't reccomend an Extract brew of that caliber to be brewed.
but that is just my opinion.

Now lets go through and give you some solid advice to help you make this happen, if you decide to....

as it has been said a few times.. Add more hops. 75-100 IBU(calculated) will be just enough to help with it being cloying.
At 20+%abv, there is a good chance that its going to have a very thick mouthfeel.

As for your Yeast choice.....
Whitelabs 099 is a very picky yeast, A large well fed starter will be needed...


I would like to offer you an idea,

Take that stock of supplies, split your grain bill in half and make 2, change out the hops for the second batch.

One 5 gallon batch of 20+% brew, that will take a while before its drinkable

or

Two 5 gallon batches of 10+% brew that will be ready fairly quickly, and that you can try new things like adding oak chips/staves different yeasts

I am not trying to steer you away from your idea, but I will say that there have been some serious home brewers that have tried and have not had much luck making that large of a brew.

Good Luck with what ever path you take!

-Cheeto

 

[Rundorig76]

Everything you said makes sense, ill wait till I have expanded my equipment for all grain. Ill keep experimenting with belgian strong ales for practice!