Next step for improving beer ?

[beerluvva]

Hi all
Have done about 10 extract (dme) pale ales since First starting, and Seen a lot of improvement from brew #1 to now. But, there is still some taste in the beer I can't quite put my finger on, it's kind if a cloying after taste that I assume is the oft-cited extract twang. Have experimented with the usually suggested late additions of dme to reduce this, and seen some improvement but odd taste still there.

Next incremental steps I'm planning are:
1. Go all grain
2. Better temp control for fermentation. I have a tendency to start fermentation warm, as I don't use a wort chiller, rather I ice bath the brew kettle. Usual starting temp is 80 deg down to 70 deg at steady state..
3. Change brew kettles. My current kettle is a super cheap thin aluminum or aluminum coated thing...don't entirely trust it though no real reason not to.

I'm inclined to do #1 first, any opinions? I realize there's many other details one could consider, but the above are my leading suspects.

Btw, as to yeast handling, I do a simple yeast wash and pitch from stepped starters.

Thanks all
Beerluvva

 

[Mozart]

As a brand new brewer myself (with fewer batches under my belt than you), I was looking to improve my brew so went the temperature controlled fermentation route as my next step. Some brewers from what I've read seem to do great jumping to all-grain quickly, but given the time and space limitations I have, better temp control seemed like the next logical step to me. I think a lot of this is personal choice though.

If I look to up my game yet again in the future, I'll probably go with the mini-mash approach.

Cheers!

 

[Malticulous]

Your going to have to have to work on the other two as well to go all grain because you will need a kettle big enough for full boils and some kind of wort chiller. You don't even need to go all grain to get those improvements so I'd start with two and three first. Later get a mash tun and you may be able to use your old pot as a HLT.

 

[dstranger99]

For # 2, not only do you need to get it cooler fast, but fermentation itself adds another 10 or so degrees in that bucket if it's not sitting in some sort of swamp cooler.

 

[Heavywalker]

After my first batch my beer had a twang to it, almost metallic like at the back of my throat on the finish. I researched on the net and it said it can be caused from aluminum pots if they don't have the oxidized layer built up on them, and from my understanding this is something that you would have to build up each time you brew as it can be washed off, kinda like seasoning a cast iron skillet. I went and found a 24 quart stainless pot for the batch that I brewed on Saturday so hopefully that will help.

I am thinking of going to all grain as well but I would think that having the proper equipment would be the first step. Trying to jump to all grain without the proper set up will likely make worse beer than if you stuck with extract brewing.

 

[Jayhem]

The biggest thing I have learned in my 2 years of brewing, 18 months of which has been AG is that temp control is most important to avoid off flavors. You need to cool the wort to pitching temps 65-70 before pitching and most ales will taste much cleaner if fermented around 65F. I'm talking beer temp.

What many new brewers don't realize is that when an ale yeast has a temp range of 60-75 they are referring to the BEER TEMP, not the air temp of the location of your fermenter. Fermentation creates heat so the beer can easily reach 5-8 degrees hotter than the ambient air temp so if you are fermenting in a 70F basement the beer might be pushing 80F and creating all sorts of off-flavors! Also just because the yeast has a range up to 75F does not mean it makes good tasting beer at that temp! 65F is a sweet spot for ales at least with the neutral yeast strains I use.

A wort chiller and temp controller for my extra fridge was the best brewing investment I have made. My beer tastes just like any other craft brew I have tried, no off flavors at all.

 

[Bsquared]

Priority #2 should be #1. Proper yeast health/pitching rates and fermentation temperature control are arguable the most important beer making skill to develop.

Wort from all grain takes a little bit to figure out, but going all grain it wont improve your beer at first, It will more than likely decrease the quality of your batches the first few times till you figure out your system.

better off sticking with Extract brews for a little while and develop good fermentation temperature control system, and yeast pitching techniques.

 

[fuzzy2133]

What helped me the most has been the fermentation temp control and wort chiller.
The room I was using has good temperature swings between night and day. I was able to move to my garage and keep the temp steady

 

[ffaoe]

+1 temperature control

 

[beergolf]

The two best things you can do for better beer are...Control fermentation temperature. You are pitching way too high and fermenting to warm for most yeasts.

The second thing is to pitch the proper amount of healty yeast. Get a stir plate and make the proper sized starters and you will notice a big improvement.

You can make good beer with extract if you do these two things. Going all grain is not going to make better beer if you are fermenting at the wrong temp and not pitching the proper amount of healthy yeast.

 

[finsfan]

I would have to agree with bsquared. Temps are very important. I would look into getting a tri-clad stainless kettle. They sell as walmart for $50, I believe the 30 or 32qt ones which can hold a full five gallons (obviously not to biol a full five in) or just invest in an 8 to 10 gallon tallboy and that is something you will need for all grain anyways.

 

[sumone]

I just made the step from extract to partial mashing in hopes of improving the quality of my beer. However I'm beginning to think that most of the issues I contributed to extract might actually be from poor fermentation temp control.

I will be investing in a simple "swamp cooler" set up for my next batch.

 

[unionrdr]

It'll help to get your wort chilled to 70-75F,then top off in the fermenter (if you're doing partial boils) with gallon jugs of water chilled in the fridge a day or two before. This'll get the wort temp down to 60-65F pretty quick. The stir roughly 5 minutes to mix & aerate if you aren't using a fine mesh strainer to aid in aeration & getting out extranious gunk.

 

[sok454]

Good read here guys... I just got my first chiller yesterday. Excited to use it this weekend! I think some of the off flavors i've had in my early batches were due to the poor temp control during fermentation. Definitely something I need to work on!

 

[billpaustin]

What is the advantage for quickly chilling?

Let's say the wort is chilled overnight, what is the difference? Besides the chance for an infection?

 

[Malticulous]

There is a of info on no-chill brewing here. They say there is no difference. I believe the quick chilling will help drop some proteins but in time they will drop out anyway.

Most of the time I can't get my lagers to pitching temp. In the summer I can't even get my ales cold enough. I let them sit in my fermentation fridge until they are chilled, sometimes overnight.

 

[bumstigedy]

Since you used the word cloying, I am assuming you mean sweet? You could try to add some sugar to dry it out and/or pitch more yeast (if you aren't already pitching enough). My guess is that the sugar will do the trick if it is the sweetness.

Hi all
Have done about 10 extract (dme) pale ales since First starting, and Seen a lot of improvement from brew #1 to now. But, there is still some taste in the beer I can't quite put my finger on, it's kind if a cloying after taste that I assume is the oft-cited extract twang. Have experimented with the usually suggested late additions of dme to reduce this, and seen some improvement but odd taste still there.

Next incremental steps I'm planning are:
1. Go all grain
2. Better temp control for fermentation. I have a tendency to start fermentation warm, as I don't use a wort chiller, rather I ice bath the brew kettle. Usual starting temp is 80 deg down to 70 deg at steady state..
3. Change brew kettles. My current kettle is a super cheap thin aluminum or aluminum coated thing...don't entirely trust it though no real reason not to.

I'm inclined to do #1 first, any opinions? I realize there's many other details one could consider, but the above are my leading suspects.

Btw, as to yeast handling, I do a simple yeast wash and pitch from stepped starters.

Thanks all
Beerluvva

 

[BigFloyd]

Good temp control (both pitch temp and fermentation) will do more to improve your brews at this stage than any other change you are considering.

Typical ales: pitch around 62*F and keep it (beer temp measured on the fermenter) in the low-mid 60's for the first week. Then let it rise 4-5 degrees until fermentation is finished.

Since it sounds like you will be doing this long-term, one of the best brew equipment investments you can make is a used freezer/fridge plus an STC-1000 controller.

 

[beerluvva]

Since you used the word cloying, I am assuming you mean sweet? You could try to add some sugar to dry it out and/or pitch more yeast (if you aren't already pitching enough). My guess is that the sugar will do the trick if it is the sweetness.

The taste I'm trying to get rid of is not sweet like in table sugar sweet. It's actually hard to describe...it's an strong, mouth coating after taste that reminds me of raw dme, which I tasted on its own once. But there's something else in it too.

I thank everyone for their replies, the trend seems pretty clear to go after the temp control as a best next step...I'll work on that & let you know how it goes...thanks again for the specific suggestions on how to go about it.

Beerluvva

 

[DrunkleJon]

The three most important things in brewing.

1. Temperature Control
2. Temperature Control
3. Temperature Control

Yeast Pitch rates help too, but not as much as the above.
Additionally, DME, though it costs more, tends to exhibit the extract twang less, for a quick test, try swapping out the LME with the equivalent (not lb for lb) of DME and see if it reduces the twang taste. Additionally late extract additions can help it as well.

But yeah, Temperature control will improve a beer immensely.

Did we mention Temp control?

 

[BamaProud]

If you don't have a quality thermometer one that reads 32 degrees in an ice bath and 212 @boil I would recommend that purchase before going to all grain.

I have done 3 batches in my fermentation chamber(20 dollar Craigslist score) and 24 dollar e-bay temperature controller and noticed a big improvement already.

 

[glugglug]

+1 temp control. 1st step there is to pitch cooler. Get a wort chiller 1st. Pitch in low 60s if you can.

Next control temps. This won't necessarily take a lot of money. Rough tote filled with water, and adding ice, or using aquarium heater works for me. Depends on where you live.

Go all grain. It'll probably improve your beer, mostly because your interest and understanding of it will go up. I did 10 extract batches too before I went AG. That was 9 years ago. However, I brewed an extract batch at beginning of May. Had to refresh my memory on how to do it.

 

[unionrdr]

I think a budding brewer should get a good process down before going PM or AG. That alone won't fix brewing problems.

 

[glugglug]

You should only go AG after you get temp control handled.