Smash IPA is carbonation killing hop flavors

[dubprocess]

I recently brewed a Smash IPA with Marris Otter and Mosaic.

About two weeks after slow carbing the beer it was FANTASTIC!!!

The mosaic hops shined through and it was simply amazing!

After about two weeks we noticed the hop flavor really diminishing and the biscuit flavors of the Maris Otter starting to come through WAY more.

As of yesterday the IPA tasted pretty much like perfectly carbonated biscuity beer with the hops flavor long gone! I am not over or under carbing, the carbonation is perfect..

Any thoughts on this?

Beer recipe:
60 min boil
5.5 gallon batch

12lb Maris Otter
60 1.5oz mosaic
15 min 1.5oz mosaic
0 min 1oz mosiac
14 days 1oz mosaic
7 days 1oz mosaic

WLP001

 

[DocScott]

Recipe looks decent enough to me. Maybe just a case of the hops fading quickly. What temp are you serving it at? Maybe its too cold and you're losing the hop flavor.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Lupuline shift (you getting used to bitterness) and gradual loss of hop flavor do occur. Carbonation helps hop bitterness shine through.

 

[tre9er]

Try drinking a budweiser or a blonde of some sort then come back to it. I bet you notice the hops again.

 

[unionrdr]

I usually do my hop additions @ 60,20 & 10 minutes. Dry hop with maybe 2oz of the mosaic. I think it'd be better that way. I also use o2 barrier caps. They seem to prolong the beers qualities a bit more.
I've got one batch of light colored ale with kolsh yeast & BB caps. The other dark with the same yeast & O2 caps. The dark one is still great,the light one with cheap caps had 1 gusher & 2 oxidized so far. This was at about 7-8 weeks in the bottles.

 

[Yooper]

The beer has been kegged for about a month? Hops flavor and aroma does fade fast, and if the beer is 6-8 weeks old by this point that is probably why.

 

[tre9er]

The beer has been kegged for about a month?

I know, right? Mine don't usually last 10 days

 

[Zamial]

Any thoughts on this?

Beer recipe:

14 days 1oz mosaic
7 days 1oz mosaic

That seems like a REALLY long time to dry hop IMHO. Commercial IPAs are best before a month or sometimes 2 months and after that they start to fade fast.

Dry hopping adds to the aroma and sometimes what I call "perceived flavor". The flavor comes from the boil additions and some people believe that mash hopping can also help. Next time add all the dry hops in at 1 time for 7 days or less...

 

[Yooper]

That seems like a REALLY long time to dry hop IMHO. Commercial IPAs are best before a month or sometimes 2 months and after that they start to fade fast.

Dry hopping adds to the aroma and sometimes what I call "perceived flavor". The flavor comes from the boil additions and some people believe that mash hopping can also help. Next time add all the dry hops in at 1 time for 7 days or less...

I didn't notice that before. That makes it seem like the beer is even older than I guessed at 6-8 weeks old. If it's been in the keg for a month, and was dryhopped for a couple of weeks, it seems like the beer is aged and past its peak.

When was this beer brewed?

I normally dryhop for 5 days before packaging, and then sometimes dryhop in the keg as well. The beer is usually 10-14 days old when it's dryhopped, so it's typically 14-19 days old when I keg it. I don't think it's ever lasted a month in my house, so it's still at its peak while I'm consuming it. If this beer is aged, that's the reason for the hops flavor and aroma to fade.

 

[dubprocess]

I didn't notice that before. That makes it seem like the beer is even older than I guessed at 6-8 weeks old. If it's been in the keg for a month, and was dryhopped for a couple of weeks, it seems like the beer is aged and past its peak.

When was this beer brewed?

I normally dryhop for 5 days before packaging, and then sometimes dryhop in the keg as well. The beer is usually 10-14 days old when it's dryhopped, so it's typically 14-19 days old when I keg it. I don't think it's ever lasted a month in my house, so it's still at its peak while I'm consuming it. If this beer is aged, that's the reason for the hops flavor and aroma to fade.

Cmon seriously? YOu mean to tell me an IPA is past its peek 6 weeks in..not buying that thoery one bit..haha .. I have brewed many many times and this is the first time it has ever happened..just kinda a weird thing.. I am thinking the hops could have been slightly older than I thought.

 

[dubprocess]

Lupuline shift (you getting used to bitterness) and gradual loss of hop flavor do occur. Carbonation helps hop bitterness shine through.

no this is not the reason at all..there is a very prominent biscuit taste..hops just dont seem to exist in the beer anymore

 

[unionrdr]

They could be old hops. But I've noticed hop aromas fade first,then flavors starting around 6-7 weeks in bottles. But the o2 caps def seem to extend that a little bit ime.

 

[dubprocess]

The beer has been kegged for about a month? Hops flavor and aroma does fade fast, and if the beer is 6-8 weeks old by this point that is probably why.

I really disagree. I have brewed a lot of IPAS (almost all I brew) and the hop diminishing has never been this drastic..thanks for the reply though

 

[dubprocess]

That seems like a REALLY long time to dry hop IMHO. Commercial IPAs are best before a month or sometimes 2 months and after that they start to fade fast.

Dry hopping adds to the aroma and sometimes what I call "perceived flavor". The flavor comes from the boil additions and some people believe that mash hopping can also help. Next time add all the dry hops in at 1 time for 7 days or less...

good point on the dry hopping time..i might just try this next time..and yes i know dry hopping does not add to any kind of real flavor..

 

[johngaltsmotor]

This is why I have taken to putting whole leaf dry hops in grain bags ziptied to the diptube in the keg. I recently cleaned out an IIPA keg that blew about a month ago (I know, I'm a slacker but I didn't need the keg or the fridge space yet). I poured the ~6oz out of the bottom of the keg that this diptube misses and it was still great. I seriously considered reusing those dry hops too but this weekend is scheduled for sausage making, not beer brewing.

 

[Yooper]

I really disagree. I have brewed a lot of IPAS (almost all I brew) and the hop diminishing has never been this drastic..thanks for the reply though

No problem. It's just my own experience. It really does sound like your beer is aged, even though you don't give a timeline.

Most IPAs do peak by about 6-8 weeks old. If that's never happened to you, you're very lucky. However, it does sound like this is exactly what happened to you, and it sounds like the beer is older than 6-8 weeks old.

 

[VladOfTrub]

"Cmon seriously? YOu mean to tell me an IPA is past its peek 6 weeks in..not buying that thoery one bit..haha .. I have brewed many many times and this is the first time it has ever happened..just kinda a weird thing.. I am thinking the hops could have been slightly older than I thought."

Infusion mashed Ales inherently lose a lot of what the hops put in it, within a few weeks. That's a given. IPA brewed to be exported, back in the day, were heavily hopped. If you haven't noticed a change in flavor, good. You're one of the chosen few. There are things left in the beer made from an infusion that reduces the shelf life. Excess protein and starch are a big part of why hops fade out. Have you ever notice a best if guzzled by date on a beer bottle? The brewer doesn't put it there because the printer needs work. However, in your case, you may be using malt and hops specially grown on the Planet Zinth. While we earthlings are limited to using the stuff coming from agri-biz.

 

[Gameface]

OP, you're so sure everything you've done is perfect and that none of the suggestions could possibly be it, yet you wonder if it's the CO2, which you also claim is perfect.

So, is this the first IPA you've had CO2 in? (<-- tongue-in-cheek) Otherwise why would THAT be the problem and not age or something else about your technique?

Did you use any base malt or specialty malt that was new to you? Were the hops from a bulk order you've used before or recently purchased just for this brew? Is there a chance this batch experienced a little more O2 exposure than normal?

I mean, I get that everything you've done is "perfect" and that typically you have eternal hop flavor and aroma so that's what you should get this time, too, but if you don't want help why ask?

 

[dubprocess]

OP, you're so sure everything you've done is perfect and that none of the suggestions could possibly be it, yet you wonder if it's the CO2, which you also claim is perfect.

So, is this the first IPA you've had CO2 in? (<-- tongue-in-cheek) Otherwise why would THAT be the problem and not age or something else about your technique?

Did you use any base malt or specialty malt that was new to you? Were the hops from a bulk order you've used before or recently purchased just for this brew? Is there a chance this batch experienced a little more O2 exposure than normal?

I mean, I get that everything you've done is "perfect" and that typically you have eternal hop flavor and aroma so that's what you should get this time, too, but if you don't want help why ask?

Point taken..didnt mean to come across as if i am perfect..seriously its not really my style.. i think its just a case of older hops...i have kegged many ipas..but never with maris otter. i was thinking along the lines of this malt being the culprit..haha but who the hell knows!

 

[bcorreia]

I too have a beer that lost hop flavor quickly. It’s a Citra PA that tasted great for about 2 weeks then the citrus flavors diminished. Searching for answers brought me to this thread. I have made numerous heavily hopped IPA’s and PA’s that change over several months but never a beer that lost the hop flavor in a few weeks. Once carbonated this beer was great but after four weeks it’s just average for me. I am wondering if this is normal for Citra hops or maybe I need to change the schedule a little. Below is the additions and scheduled used to make 6 gallons.

.55oz Magnum 60min
1.09oz Citra 15min
1.09oz Citra 5min
1.09oz Citra Dry hop, 6 days in secondary.

 

[smizak]

I too have a beer that lost hop flavor quickly. It’s a Citra PA that tasted great for about 2 weeks then the citrus flavors diminished. Searching for answers brought me to this thread. I have made numerous heavily hopped IPA’s and PA’s that change over several months but never a beer that lost the hop flavor in a few weeks. Once carbonated this beer was great but after four weeks it’s just average for me. I am wondering if this is normal for Citra hops or maybe I need to change the schedule a little. Below is the additions and scheduled used to make 6 gallons.

.55oz Magnum 60min
1.09oz Citra 15min
1.09oz Citra 5min
1.09oz Citra Dry hop, 6 days in secondary.

The problem is simply not enough hops. And 15min additions are nearly useless for aroma, maybe a little flavor. I put 4oz at flameout in my last IPA, 3oz dry hop

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[unionrdr]

15 minutes would definitely be a flavor addition. if i want aroma in the boil,it goes in at about 3 minutes. Otherwise,I dry hop for good aroma. My Cougar Country IPA gets 8.3ozs of hops from the boil to dry hop.

 

[smizak]

15 minutes would definitely be a flavor addition. if i want aroma in the boil,it goes in at about 3 minutes. Otherwise,I dry hop for good aroma. My Cougar Country IPA gets 8.3ozs of hops from the boil to dry hop.

Flame out hops add tons of flavor and aroma. Pliny has no boil additions after 15min mark.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[unionrdr]

I used .3oz Warrior for the bittering addition,& four flavor hop additions of 1.2ozs each @ 20,15,& 10 minutes left in the boil. Dry hopped one week with the remaining .8oz of each flavor hop. Tasted kinda piny/resiny like pliny,with a very good IPA hop flavor also reminicent of Latitude 48 IPA from SA.