Obnoxious Football Trash Talk Thread

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Punity said:
Im thinking a reply of " But if Kapernick had been there the whole season those would be different" is coming.
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That's a fact. He's only putting up stats and not taking into account the situation Crabtree was in. A garbage QB on a run first team. The years Shinglestary was there don't even count. Crabtree is significantly bigger and more physical than Cruz and has much better hands. Throwing out some stats that are primarily from the Alex Smith era and some unfounded personal bias that the kid is in any way a diva does not support one's argument.
 
Darwin18 said:
You obviously don't understand the concept of a top-5 receiver. Just to be clear we're talking top-5 in the league, not your own team. Vernon Davis is arguably the best receiver on the 49ers at the moment.

This is Crabtree's stats from 2012. His BEST statistical year to date. Do you see anything in here that screams "Top-5" receiver? Aside from his YAC stats, he's at best a top-20 receiver.

- 14th in Receiving yards (1,105 yds)
- 11th in Receiving TDs (9 and behind Cruz btw)
- Tied for 17th in Receptions greater than 20+ yards (15)
- 18th in Yards Per Game (69.1)
- 5th in YAC (536)
- 13th in 1st Downs (57)
- 13th in Receptions (86 and behind Cruz)
- 23rd in Targets (126)
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what about the non statistical considerations? Like does he draw more attention leaving other WR and TE with better matchups? What about blocking? ...etc. all that work with those stats and it only paints part of the picture yet you pretend in end all be all evidence of some irrelevant and stupid conversation. I swear some day you guys will get this concept.
 
McBrewskie said:
That's a fact. He's only putting up stats and not taking into account the situation Crabtree was in. A garbage QB on a run first team. The years Shinglestary was there don't even count. Crabtree is significantly bigger and more physical than Cruz and has much better hands. Throwing out some stats that are primarily from the Alex Smith era and some unfounded personal bias that the kid is in any way a diva does not support one's argument.
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Oh statistics. They certainly do not entirely define a player, but they do show quite a bit about them, such as the painfully clear and OBVIOUS position that Michael Crabtree is not, never has been, and never will be a top-5 WR. If you want to blame Crabtree's lack of stats on Alex Smith, go ahead. Does that in anyway bump Crabtree up to a top-5 WR?

Nope.

Go ahead and blame Mike Singletary for Crabtree's lack of statistics. Does that in anyway bump Crabtree up to a top-5 WR?

Nope.

Do you see where I am going here, or do I need to make it more painfully obvious?

Oh, and Victor Cruz is listed as 6'0" and 205 while Michael Crabtree is listed at 6'1" and 214 lbs. When you say "significantly bigger", I think you need to learn what "significant" means.

And Hoppy - for the love of god, when you're talking about a top-5 WR, you don't talk about run blocking.
 
Granted that run blocking is way more of a factor with a TE...I was just making sure people realized there are other tangible and intangible considerations. Everyone around here puts up 5 numbers to support an argument...it's a bit ridiculous.
 
@McBrewski, I think all of your assertions are wrong. First off, Alex Smith was 7 passes short of finishing with the league's top passer rating. That certainly doesn't mean he's the next coming of Montana. Further, my wife is a hardcore, born and raised in the area, and screw everyone else if they like anyone else 49ers fan and even she's not foolish enough to try and convince you that Kaepernick is going to magically make a receiver good. The thing is the two of them relate/work better than Smith/Crabtree did... Much in the way I expect Patriots fans to have heartburn when they see Amendola can't just walk in and replace Welker who like stupidly like to blame for all their woes. Further, if I was going just on that basis alone, I'd have to give the Mighty Midget in Seattle higher props as he seemed to have grown far more than Kaepernick did. I'm not even entirely convinced that Kaep is going to continue in the success he had at the end of last year. Hell, even the Wildcat package was successful for a half season or so. If he doesn't buck up and get better at some aspects of his game, they're going to be hard pressed to come anywhere close to getting back to the big game this year.

That said, while I don't think Julio Jones is a bad receiver and he did do loads better last year, I'm nowhere near ready to label him a top 5 receiver. Frankly, I'm not even prepared to bump him past Roddy Smith just yet. And I'm sure as @#$% not ready to hold him in the same esteem as A.J. Green. A.J. Green has accomplished what he has done so far with the fairly noodle armed SuperGinger at QB who started last year with him as a rookie ffs. And Julio Jones joined a team with some decent people (Hell, even Matt Ryan) at all positions and more or less underachieved til he began to come out of his shell a bit last year. I'd much more likely give Percy Harvin the nod. It's a shame he's unable to stay healthy for more than half the year.
 
Darwin18 said:
Oh statistics. They certainly do not entirely define a player, but they do show quite a bit about them, such as the painfully clear and OBVIOUS position that Michael Crabtree is not, never has been, and never will be a top-5 WR. If you want to blame Crabtree's lack of stats on Alex Smith, go ahead. Does that in anyway bump Crabtree up to a top-5 WR?

Nope.

Go ahead and blame Mike Singletary for Crabtree's lack of statistics. Does that in anyway bump Crabtree up to a top-5 WR?

Nope.

Do you see where I am going here, or do I need to make it more painfully obvious?

Oh, and Victor Cruz is listed as 6'0" and 205 while Michael Crabtree is listed at 6'1" and 214 lbs. When you say "significantly bigger", I think you need to learn what "significant" means.

And Hoppy - for the love of god, when you're talking about a top-5 WR, you don't talk about run blocking.
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His numbers the second half of last year, once Kaep entered as the starter, were top 5, that is not debatable. You obviously have a bias that is not allowing you to view this rationally. He should absolutely pick up where he left off with Kaep. My guess would be 1,400 plus yards and 10 TDs next season.
 
Also, while I don't blame Mike Singletary for Crabtree's lack of production... I do blame Mike Singletary for being one of the worst head coaches I've ever seen in the NFL. Not the worst mind you but at least ranked in the bottom. I had the misfortune of living over there during his rein of terribadness and it was outright PAINFUL.
 
McBrewskie said:
His numbers the second half of last year, once Kaep entered as the starter, were top 5, that is not debatable. You obviously have a bias that is not allowing you to view this rationally. He should absolutely pick up where he left off with Kaep. My guess would be 1,400 plus yards and 10 TDs next season.
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He *MIGHT* break a thousand next year but no chance he hits 1400 or even 1200 for that matter. The TDs total is plausible though. I hope Kaep continues to excel for my wife's sake (but admittedly hope he falters a bit late enough to keep me from landscaping duty) but I just don't see it going as well as some people are hoping. Frankly I think the Wilson has a far better chance of continuing his late season success but he clearly was making it through a lot more of his looks than Kaep was last year.
 
Accidic said:
@McBrewski, I think all of your assertions are wrong. First off, Alex Smith was 7 passes short of finishing with the league's top passer rating. That certainly doesn't mean he's the next coming of Montana. Further, my wife is a hardcore, born and raised in the area, and screw everyone else if they like anyone else 49ers fan and even she's not foolish enough to try and convince you that Kaepernick is going to magically make a receiver good. The thing is the two of them relate/work better than Smith/Crabtree did... Much in the way I expect Patriots fans to have heartburn when they see Amendola can't just walk in and replace Welker who like stupidly like to blame for all their woes. Further, if I was going just on that basis alone, I'd have to give the Mighty Midget in Seattle higher props as he seemed to have grown far more than Kaepernick did. I'm not even entirely convinced that Kaep is going to continue in the success he had at the end of last year. Hell, even the Wildcat package was successful for a half season or so. If he doesn't buck up and get better at some aspects of his game, they're going to be hard pressed to come anywhere close to getting back to the big game this year.

That said, while I don't think Julio Jones is a bad receiver and he did do loads better last year, I'm nowhere near ready to label him a top 5 receiver. Frankly, I'm not even prepared to bump him past Roddy Smith just yet. And I'm sure as @#$% not ready to hold him in the same esteem as A.J. Green. A.J. Green has accomplished what he has done so far with the fairly noodle armed SuperGinger at QB who started last year with him as a rookie ffs. And Julio Jones joined a team with some decent people (Hell, even Matt Ryan) at all positions and more or less underachieved til he began to come out of his shell a bit last year. I'd much more likely give Percy Harvin the nod. It's a shame he's unable to stay healthy for more than half the year.
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QB rating is a garbage stat. Alex was a game manager who couldn't have gotten past Green Bay. Again, it sucks Crabtree was limited for years due to the system coaches and Alex, but the minute that changed he started putting up top 5 numbers. In terms of Kaep, the wildcat won't be that effective long term, but all that was possible because the dude has a cannon for an arm and can actually throw the ball very well, he's a pass first QB. The comparison to Wilson is interesting because the tools are similar. Kaep had only played 11 games and was absolutely dynamic, Wilson was as well in his rookie year. I think due to his size and measurables Kaep has the higher ceiling of the two. Harvin? Well I just hope that his headaches get so bad that combined with the noise at the clink that his head actually explodes on the field all Scanners style.
 
McBrewskie said:
His numbers the second half of last year, once Kaep entered as the starter, were top 5, that is not debatable. You obviously have a bias that is not allowing you to view this rationally. He should absolutely pick up where he left off with Kaep. My guess would be 1,400 plus yards and 10 TDs next season.
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Pfft... Someone in the Obnoxious Football Trash Talk thread being biased about something? Don't be stupid!
 
Refresh my memory but didn't the Giants barely get by SF by the skin of their balls a couple years ago after Smith helped put SF over NO in a shootout? Green Bay won't win another SB until they get some help on the defensive side of the ball.
 
McBrewskie said:
His numbers the second half of last year, once Kaep entered as the starter, were top 5, that is not debatable. You obviously have a bias that is not allowing you to view this rationally. He should absolutely pick up where he left off with Kaep. My guess would be 1,400 plus yards and 10 TDs next season.
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No, I'm looking at numbers. I'm not sure what you're basing your decision on other than an extreme case of homerism.

This is an imperfect website, but it attempts to rank receivers by targets, receptions, and the number of plays the individual player was targeted by his team. It takes away all those annoying stats like TDs, YDs, YACs, you know the things that hurt Hoppy's head.

http://www.kffl.com/fantasy-football/targets/

Select Week 10 2012 through Week 17 2012 when Kaepernick took over as the starter. Here's your top 5.

1) Calvin Johnson
2) Brandon Marshall
3) Andre Johnson
4) Reggie Wayne
5) Wes Welker

And then we have.....

12) Michael Crabtree

He is NOT a TOP-5 WR. I'm not sure where you're getting this idea from. Nothing, NOTHING, Michael Crabtree has done in his career as a 49er has ever put him in this category.

He's a contender for the top-10 with a full season under Kaepernick but he simply doesn't have the physical talent or skill to elevate his game to that level. If Kaepernick makes it through 2013 healthy, I see Crabtree with 1,200-yards and 10 - 12 TDs so long as he keeps motivated which is a problem for him.
 
Darwin18 said:
No, I'm looking at numbers. I'm not sure what you're basing your decision on other than an extreme case of homerism.

This is an imperfect website, but it attempts to rank receivers by targets, receptions, and the number of plays the individual player was targeted by his team. It takes away all those annoying stats like TDs, YDs, YACs, you know the things that hurt Hoppy's head.

http://www.kffl.com/fantasy-football/targets/

Select Week 10 2012 through Week 17 2012 when Kaepernick took over as the starter. Here's your top 5.

1) Calvin Johnson
2) Brandon Marshall
3) Andre Johnson
4) Reggie Wayne
5) Wes Welker

And then we have.....

12) Michael Crabtree

He is NOT a TOP-5 WR. I'm not sure where you're getting this idea from. Nothing, NOTHING, Michael Crabtree has done in his career as a 49er has ever put him in this category.

He's a contender for the top-10 with a full season under Kaepernick but he simply doesn't have the physical talent or skill to elevate his game to that level. If Kaepernick makes it through 2013 healthy, I see Crabtree with 1,200-yards and 10 - 12 TDs so long as he keeps motivated which is a problem for him.
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http://edraft.com/nfl/news/is-michael-crabtree-prepared-to-be-a-top-5-fantasy-wide-receiver/

Last 8 games he played last season. Motivation has never been an issue for him, injuries and a QB with no natural instincts yes, motivation no. His last 8 games played he was a complete swinging dick stud.
 
Sorry, but Tavon Austin has a better chance at being a top 5 receiver next year than Crabtree. Crabtree comfortably being in the top 20 as a viable possibility I could see.
 
Accidic said:
Sorry, but Tavon Austin has a better chance at being a top 5 receiver next year than Crabtree. Crabtree comfortably being in the top 20 as a viable possibility I could see.
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Pretty sure you don't even watch football and just regurgitate the opinions of your wife.
 
Your logic is clearly infallible as a hardcore 49ers fan would clearly be telling me how bad one of her receivers is over and over. To exacerbate the utter stupidity in that would be her endorsement of a Rams receiver on top of it. Good call...
 
Accidic said:
Your logic is clearly infallible as a hardcore 49ers fan would clearly be telling me how bad one of her receivers is over and over. To exacerbate the utter stupidity in that would be her endorsement of a Rams receiver on top of it. Good call...
Click to expand...

Well those opinions on football are so idiotic I figured only a woman would have come up with them.
 
Crabtree is definitely a top five talent. He may not be in a situation where he can prove that with statistical evidence, but it's my opinion. My opinion is right and yours is wrong. I don't like the niners really, but when I see him play you can tell he's an elite wideout. Sometimes you have to watch football games instead of looking at a stat sheet. I recommend the Redzone channel.
 
So is thinking Crabtree would be a top 5 receiver after going through half a dozen different play systems that surely to god one of them would have made him one before now. Crabtree is decent but he's more of a staple WR than a primetime receiver and if you believe otherwise I truly pity you.
 
If someone can't see that Crabtree was an elite WR By the end of last year they either don't watch football or have no concept of how the game is played.
 
Accidic said:
Gronkowski has to go in for surgery on his arm again? Already?!?
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I love this story... The media and people aren't really bright are all freakin' out, "Gronkowski is gonna have another operation!?!? Oh my GOD!!!!!" As they jizz all over themselves.

Uhhh. Yeah. The guy had a freakin metal plate put in his arm. They're taking it out. What do people think, the plate would just dissolve away?

"But its another operation!!!!"

Uhhhh. Yeah. Apparently saying "hocus pocus" over the arm isn't workig for getting the plate removed.
 
My understanding is that they're replacing the plate, not just removing it. Last I had read, the decision on surgery hasn't been made because they're still waiting for his antibiotic treatments to run their course. But, they aren't just taking out the plate, they're taking it out, testing the tissue around it (for infection, I think) and putting in a new plate.

As someone said, though, it's amazing that ANY infection can survive with all that tequila in his system.

I tend not to get too worried about these types of things, but one name keeps popping into my head. Kellen Winslow Jr.
 
HoppyDaze said:
Crabtree is definitely a top five talent. He may not be in a situation where he can prove that with statistical evidence, but it's my opinion. My opinion is right and yours is wrong. I don't like the niners really, but when I see him play you can tell he's an elite wideout. Sometimes you have to watch football games instead of looking at a stat sheet. I recommend the Redzone channel.
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How are you watching the games if you're watching Redzone Channel? You're watching highlights....do you understand the difference?
 
McBrewskie said:
If someone can't see that Anquan Boldin was an elite WR By the end of last year they either don't watch football or have no concept of how the game is played.
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Fixed it for you. Also, should note that he's going to steal a lot of receptions away from Crabtree. In fact, if I were building a team, I think I'd pick Boldin over Crabtree just for the 2013 season. Boldin is a tough, mean, and slightly insane SOB.
 
Crabtree elite? good god man you posted how he was on his way to a good fantasy season to backup your claims that used two stats and a smaller sample size to justify it.
 
HoppyDaze said:
Crabtree is definitely a top five talent. He may not be in a situation where he can prove that with statistical evidence, but it's my opinion. My opinion is right and yours is wrong. I don't like the niners really, but when I see him play you can tell he's an elite wideout. Sometimes you have to watch football games instead of looking at a stat sheet. I recommend the Redzone channel.
Click to expand...

Man, Hoppy had me worried when he made a relevant and, dare I say, poignant post a couple weeks ago.

Glad to see that all is once again right with the world. :mug:

Redzone for everyone!
 
Just walk away Darwin. You can't win in the Hoppy zone. It's literally like fighting with a, er, Hoppy kid. Even if you do come out on top, you just feel ashamed of yourself for it afterward.
 
It shows live action of various games, not highlights you jackoff. They cover games where the offense is in the, get this, redzone! Super radical concept. What a horrible way to watch football....

next
 
Darwin18 said:
Fixed it for you. Also, should note that he's going to steal a lot of receptions away from Crabtree. In fact, if I were building a team, I think I'd pick Boldin over Crabtree just for the 2013 season. Boldin is a tough, mean, and slightly insane SOB.
Click to expand...

Boldin will open up the field for Crabtree. Crabtree is elite, he proved it the end of last season. Keep going back to old stats and not looking at what his level of play was actually at.
 

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