Candi Syrup in a Barleywine???

[BuffaloBeer1]

After 30 batches or so, I've finally decided to brew my first barleywine. I had thought about using dates and figs, similar to Olde School by Dogfishhead, but haven't figured out how much or when to add it. Then I started thinking about the D-180 or D-90 syrups made by CSI. Has anyone used them in a barleywine before. I have used them for belgian dark strong ales and dubbels before. I know a lot of people use a pound of corn sugar in barleywines. So I was figuring that I might be able to get some of the prune/fig/date sort of flavors from these while adding highly fermentable sugar to help bring down the gravity a little (like the corn sugar). Here's roughly what I was thinking so far:

24 lbs. of 2-row
1 lb. of crystal 60 or 80
1 lb. of D-180 or D-90
bitter to 70-90 IBU's with chinook, centennial, and simcoe
Hoping to use some oak later on in the secondary (1st time with this as well), maybe even a little bourbon (will decide that later).

Ultimately, I want something that I can drink early with some bite to it, and then an intense sipper after long aging.

Any thoughts and feedback is appreciated.
Cheers.

 

[sfrisby]

I've used CSI stuff in quads (fantastic) and also d-180 in a RIS. Turned out great.

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

I've used CSI stuff in quads (fantastic) and also d-180 in a RIS. Turned out great.

What effect did you get in the RIS?

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

After talking it over with a local nano brewer, he thought using the candi syrup was a good idea. I just have to figure out how much and whether to use the 90 or 180. Any thoughts?
Also, how much oak would people recommend?

 

[sfrisby]

What effect did you get in the RIS?

I'll be honest, I'm not 100% sure. I've only used the syrups in quads and they are SOOO different that it is tough to determine what flavor component came from the syrups in the RIS. Should have kept some separate before the syrup addition to be able to do a taste test. But the overall final product is great.

I think the darker fruit flavors of 180 would work great in a RIS. And my standard is 2oz on 16oz bourbon for my RIS but everyone's flavor preference varies.

 

[ddrrseio]

when trying things like this, i usually split my fermentations. if i want to do everything in the kettle, i'll run the first 2.5 gal through my plate chiller, pitch the syrup (scaled to the smaller volume) and then chill the remainder. this lets me get twice the experimentation with very little extra effort.

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

For what it's worth, I went with the recipe below. Brewed it yesterday & it's happily fermenting away vigorously. The plan is to primary for 4 weeks, then secondary it with 2 oz of med toast French oak. I'm open for suggestions since I have never done this before. I'm planning for a 4 -6 week secondary. My LHBC suggested pitching champagne yeast in the secondary to counteract something in the oak, finish off the fermentation and to help with carbonating in the bottles. At the very least it will be an interesting sipper of a beer.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Big Ben Barleywine

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: English Barleywine
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6.75 gallons
Efficiency: 60% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.113
Final Gravity: 1.032
ABV (standard): 10.68%
IBU (tinseth): 70.03
SRM (morey): 25.95

FERMENTABLES:
25 lb - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (92.6%)
1 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 80L (3.7%)
1 lb - D-180 - (late addition) (3.7%)

HOPS:
45 g - Chinook for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 12, IBU: 47.04)
29 g - Centennial for 15 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 8.7, IBU: 10.91)
29 g - Simcoe for 10 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 13.2, IBU: 12.09)

MASH STEPS:
1) Temp: 150 F

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
1 each - Whirlfloc, Time: 15 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil
0.5 tsp - Wyeast Nutrient, Time: 10 min, Type: Other, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: Yes
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 72%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 59 - 75 F

 

[sfrisby]

For what it's worth, I went with the recipe below. Brewed it yesterday & it's happily fermenting away vigorously. The plan is to primary for 4 weeks, then secondary it with 2 oz of med toast French oak. I'm open for suggestions since I have never done this before. I'm planning for a 4 -6 week secondary. My LHBC suggested pitching champagne yeast in the secondary to counteract something in the oak, finish off the fermentation and to help with carbonating in the bottles. At the very least it will be an interesting sipper of a beer.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Big Ben Barleywine

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: English Barleywine
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6.75 gallons
Efficiency: 60% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.113
Final Gravity: 1.032
ABV (standard): 10.68%
IBU (tinseth): 70.03
SRM (morey): 25.95

FERMENTABLES:
25 lb - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (92.6%)
1 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 80L (3.7%)
1 lb - D-180 - (late addition) (3.7%)

HOPS:
45 g - Chinook for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 12, IBU: 47.04)
29 g - Centennial for 15 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 8.7, IBU: 10.91)
29 g - Simcoe for 10 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 13.2, IBU: 12.09)

MASH STEPS:
1) Temp: 150 F

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
1 each - Whirlfloc, Time: 15 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil
0.5 tsp - Wyeast Nutrient, Time: 10 min, Type: Other, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: Yes
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 72%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 59 - 75 F

Not sure what the champagne yeast is supposed to counteract in the oak. If you pitch a proper amount of yeast the first time, all available fermentable sugars will be consumed and extra yeast won't help. How are you sanitizing your oak? My favorite is soaking in bourbon!

Proper amount of yeast, oxygenation, and yeast nutrient will get your 1.112 down to 1.025-1.028. I'd start the ferm temp low and when ferm starts slowing, raise the temp a degree or two per day up to 68 to help the yeast along.

 

[jhalloran]

When did you add the D-180? Ten minutes to flame out? Thanks.

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

Yes, the d-180 was Added during the last 10 min. That seemed to work great the 2 times I used it in the Belgians beers.

As far as the champagne yeast...I wasn't following exactly what the guy was saying. I'll have to follow up with him when I can talk to him longer. I don't plan on making that decision anyway until I see where things end in a few weeks. I pitched 2 packets of the US-05, which should be enough. Even if it sits in the secondary for 2 months, I'm not sure I'll need the extra yeast. The trippel and the quad I made last year were at least 3 months from brew to bottle and they carbed up just fine.

Yes bourbon will be the sanitizer of choice (Buffalo Trace). I plan on using some later on as well. Just have to figure out how much so as not to dominate.

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

Just took a gravity sample; it's at 12.1% abv after 1 week. It's tasty already. Sweet with slight warming feeling. Hops are nice for a young beer, but will be good when they fade as well. The yeast is still working a little, but it's down to 1.023. I figure they might chew a few more points off yet.

I'm now leaning towards just soaking the oak in bourbon, but not adding any extra. Since I don't have any experience with this, will I still get a little bourbon flavor coming through? I would like a hint, but not much more for this one.

 

[kshuler]

Sorry for the bump, but how did this turn out? I was thinking of trying candy syrup in a Barleywine, but wasn't sure if it would be too noticeable or not.

 

[JKaranka]

Invert sugar syrup is definitely a traditional ingredient in strong British ales (including old ale and barley wine)

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

Sorry about not responding or checking this thread for awhile. The beer turned out delicious. The only problem is that only 3 bottles out of the entire batch ended up carbonating. That didn't stop me from enjoying it around a campfire. However, I must say that the few pleasant surprises of carbonation made this one that much better. I think perhaps I ended up using too much Dark Candi syrup. Next time, I would probably cut in half. Now that I'm kegging things, the carbonation ceases to be an issue.