Recipe help, before I brew a potential disaster

[Quyzi]

Hey dudes,

Figured that it was about time to start working on figuring out how to make my own recipes. Thought I would start with a rye IPA since they're delicious. Been reading up on grains and hops and I think I have a rudimentary idea of what needs to go in and when.. Not sure though. Playing around with BeerSmith, and some hops that I've used in the past, I came up with this. It's for a 5.5 gallon batch.

Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
8.0 oz                Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM)                     Adjunct       1        2.5 %         
11 lbs                Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)           Grain         2        55.0 %        
7 lbs                 Rye Malt (4.7 SRM)                       Grain         3        35.0 %        
1 lbs                 Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)    Grain         4        5.0 %         
8.0 oz                Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)             Grain         5        2.5 %         
2.00 oz               Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           6        67.9 IBUs     
1.00 oz               Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min         Hop           7        26.1 IBUs     
1.00 oz               Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min          Hop           8        6.8 IBUs      
1.00 oz               Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min             Hop           9        1.9 IBUs      
1.0 pkg               California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35. Yeast         10       -

TL;DR start here

There are a few things I'm wondering about. I know rye can be a pain with mash tuns, do I have enough rice hulls? or too much, even... I've seen some other recipes using rye in different amounts, anything from 5% of the bill to 75%. I want a rye flavor but not too overwhelming. Do you think I've used too much or too little of it in this recipe? Finally, I liked the flavor I got from the galaxy ipa I brewed so long ago, so I've used it here as the primary (only) hop. Not sure about aroma though. Is 1oz of saaz that late in the boil enough to get a nice aroma?

This is the first time I've seriously tried to come up with a good recipe for a brew. I've played with this software a number of times, but mostly playing around. Thank you guys for everything.

 

[tgmartin000]

That's a lot of rye, I'd scale it back to about 20%. I'd also ditch the saaz. What og!are you shooting for? That's a lot of grain for 5 gal.

 

[Quyzi]

That's a lot of rye, I'd scale it back to about 20%. I'd also ditch the saaz. What og!are you shooting for? That's a lot of grain for 5 gal.

I probably shouldn't go by the beersmith style guide when making recipes. I thought that seemed a lot of rye. Not shooting for any og in particular, just a tasty end result.

Why 20% and why ditch the saaz?

 

[inhousebrew]

Advice above is good although I like to go as high as 30% for Rye. Also curious as to what your goals are for this beer? Alcohol and IBUs?

I think Galaxy would be good for a hoppy rye ale but I wouldn't waste them by putting them in before the 20 minute mark. Just my opinion but I love them as a fifteen minute addition and a dryhop.

 

[mojo_wire]

Agree the saaz is out of place. 1 oz for 5 min isn't going to do enough to be noticed in either flavor or aroma. This is going to be a big, powerful beer from the malt beer alone, adding the saaz will be little more than tossing in a splash of Pilsner Urquell.

Looks like a ton of grain and high aa hops so I assume this is a IIPA. Too much rye will add a (someone else can probably describe this better or more accurately) heavy, woody bitterness. I would cut it in half.

This recipe might benefit from some dry hopping since there is so much bittering from the Galaxy. It's going to be strong and full bodied so some hoppy aroma would probably be nice.

 

[DonMagee]

I don't know if this will help.

I've not brewed a rye beer beyond a extract kit I did as my second beer, but from some quick google searches it seems most SN Ruthless Rye clone recipes are in the 10-15% rye area. I'd assume that anything under 20% would give a good rye flavor. After that you are going to really bring the rye out.

The saaz is a mild earthy hop typically reserved for german style beers and galaxy is a citrus/fruit hop. With the heavy focus your beer has on galaxy and it's , I'm not sure the saaz would add anything to the brew. The citrus just might drown it out. But there is nothing wrong with giving that a try.

 

[Quyzi]

Advice above is good although I like to go as high as 30% for Rye. Also curious as to what your goals are for this beer? Alcohol and IBUs?

I think Galaxy would be good for a hoppy rye ale but I wouldn't waste them by putting them in before the 20 minute mark. Just my opinion but I love them as a fifteen minute addition and a dryhop.

My goals are a tasty rye ipa. I brewed a brewers best australian ipa kit last year and it was delicious. It used galaxy hops throughout. I'm not aiming to replicate it, but I liked the citrusy flavor of it.

Agree the saaz is out of place. 1 oz for 5 min isn't going to do enough to be noticed in either flavor or aroma. This is going to be a big, powerful beer from the malt beer alone, adding the saaz will be little more than tossing in a splash of Pilsner Urquell.

Looks like a ton of grain and high aa hops so I assume this is a IIPA. Too much rye will add a (someone else can probably describe this better or more accurately) heavy, woody bitterness. I would cut it in half.

This recipe might benefit from some dry hopping since there is so much bittering from the Galaxy. It's going to be strong and full bodied so some hoppy aroma would probably be nice.

So the Saaz are out of place. I'll take those out of the recipe. Seems like its way too much rye as well. I'll cut that in half. Assuming I don't cut the hop schedule down, what hop would make a good addition for dry hopping?

 

[DonMagee]

You could dry hop with galaxy, or any other citrusy hop like centennial, cascade, citra, amarillo, etc

 

[inhousebrew]

I'd dry hop with galaxy and centennial or just galaxy straight up. I only mentioned not wasting the galaxy before 20 minutes left in the boil because they are hard to get. In fact I don't know of anywhere that actually has any right now so that is something you should look into before proceeding. I tried making my house Galaxy Pale Ale recipe the other month and couldn't acquire galaxy so I tried stella which is another Australian variety but I don't think they're as good.

 

[Quyzi]

I'd dry hop with galaxy and centennial or just galaxy straight up. I only mentioned not wasting the galaxy before 20 minutes left in the boil because they are hard to get. In fact I don't know of anywhere that actually has any right now so that is something you should look into before proceeding. I tried making my house Galaxy Pale Ale recipe the other month and couldn't acquire galaxy so I tried stella which is another Australian variety but I don't think they're as good.

Hmm, that's a good point. That kit was "limited edition". Perhaps I need to rethink the hops entirely.

So if I cut the recipe down to this, considering I'm going to rethink the choice of hops, does this look like it would produce a good brew? I'm thinking simcoe or magnum hops, based on what I'm reading about them.

Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
8.0 oz                Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM)                     Adjunct       1        2.5 %         
11 lbs                Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)           Grain         2        55.0 %        
3 lbs                 Rye Malt (4.7 SRM)                       Grain         3        35.0 %        
1 lbs                 Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)    Grain         4        5.0 %         
8.0 oz                Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)             Grain         5        2.5 %         
1.0 pkg               California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35. Yeast         10       -

 

[inhousebrew]

That looks decent enough. I'd say mash low for any IPA but especially with rye and crystal malts. Simcoe would be a good one but again the problem is getting your hands on them. Look around. Magnum is a terrific IPA bittering hop as a 60 minute addition but doesn't do a lot in terms of flavor and aroma from what I hear. There are a lot of good hop routes you could go for an IPA: Simcoe, Columbus, Cascade, Centennial, Citra, Chinook (can you tell I like "C" hops?), Summit, really any of the citrusy/fruity Austrailian or New Zealand hops.

 

[Quyzi]

Hmm, what makes it decent instead of good? I've been reading more about ingredients and what they contribute, and I think I'm starting to get it... Still likely to make mistakes though (an apparent mass overdose of rye malt for example), any help you guys can give me is greatly appreciated. Still not sure if using beersmith to create brews is a particularly good idea.

By mashing low you mean lower temperature? I read that mashing at 150* was ideal.

Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
8.0 oz                Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM)                     Adjunct       1        3.0 %         
9 lbs                 Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)           Grain         2        54.5 %        
3 lbs                 Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)                    Grain         3        18.2 %        
2 lbs                 Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)    Grain         4        12.1 %        
2 lbs                 Rye Malt (4.7 SRM)                       Grain         5        12.1 %        
1.00 oz               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           6        34.5 IBUs     
1.00 oz               Summit [17.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           7        45.1 IBUs     
0.50 oz               Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min         Hop           8        5.6 IBUs      
0.50 oz               Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min         Hop           9        3.6 IBUs      
1.0 pkg               California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35. Yeast         10       -             
2.00 oz               Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days      Hop           11       0.0 IBUs

 

[DonMagee]

Beersmith is great for making recipes, just make sure you do your research first.

The grain bill looks great, I say keep that. But change your hop schedule. Please don't bitter with Simcoe, it's a waste of a great flavor/aroma hop.

Take your simcoe and apir it up with that cascade at the 15 minute and move the 30 minute down to 20 minutes. Use something else (like that summit) to get the total IBU's your looking for in the bittering addition. Finally dry hop with both cascade and simcoe if you can. (but just cascade is fine)

You looking at a very solid Rye IPA with lots of citrus flavor.

Just spitballing here, I'd probably go with something more like this:

Imperial IPA
================================================================================
Batch Size: 5.675 gal
Boil Size: 6.425 gal
Boil Time: 60.000 min
Efficiency: 70%
OG: 1.062
FG: 1.016
ABV: 6.1%
Bitterness: 94.1 IBUs (Tinseth)
Color: 11 SRM (Morey)

Fermentables
================================================================================
                       Name    Type   Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
                   Rye Malt   Grain 2.000 lb    Yes   No   63%   5 L
       Pale Malt (2 Row) US   Grain 9.000 lb    Yes   No   79%   2 L
                Vienna Malt   Grain 2.000 lb    Yes   No   78%   4 L
 Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L   Grain 1.500 lb     No   No   74%  40 L
                 Rice Hulls Adjunct 8.000 oz     No   No    0%   0 L
Total grain: 15.000 lb

Hops
================================================================================
    Name Alpha   Amount     Use       Time   Form  IBU
  Summit 17.0% 1.000 oz    Boil 60.000 min Pellet 49.5
  Simcoe 13.0% 1.000 oz    Boil  5.000 min Pellet  7.6
  Simcoe 13.0% 1.500 oz Dry Hop 60.000 min Pellet  0.0
  Simcoe 13.0% 1.000 oz    Boil 20.000 min Pellet 22.9
 Cascade  6.0% 1.000 oz    Boil  5.000 min Pellet  3.5
 Cascade  6.0% 1.000 oz    Boil 20.000 min Pellet 10.6
 Cascade  6.0% 1.500 oz Dry Hop 60.000 min Pellet  0.0

Yeast
================================================================================
                          Name Type   Form     Amount   Stage
 WLP001 - California Ale Yeast  Ale Liquid 2.367 tbsp Primary

Mash
================================================================================
               Name     Type    Amount      Temp    Target       Time
         Conversion Infusion 3.281 gal 173.166 F 152.000 F 60.000 min
 Final Batch Sparge Infusion 4.834 gal 179.076 F 165.200 F 15.000 min

 

[inhousebrew]

It seems like you're getting close to what you want. The above recipe by Don looks tasty. Here's the deal, recipe writing is like cooking. You need to know how much of something to use, when to use it and how warm to use it at. That said you need to do a bit of research. I recommend the book Designing Great Beers by Ray Danielles to anyone serious about recipe writing. It's easy to understand and gives a break down of what grain, hops and yeast to use for each style as well as proportions and when to add them indicated by nifty graphs.

The first thing to know about hops is when to add them. Bittering hops are at 60 minutes and you get no real flavor from it, just bitterness. This is why you shouldn't waste Simcoe or Galaxy or something fancy and expensive at 60 minute additions in my opinion. Magnum is a wonderful clean bittering hop. After that I really like the fifteen minute flavor addition. And then a five minute or flameout aroma addition.

 

[inhousebrew]

One more quick thing. I said pretty decent because it looks pretty decent with potential to be good or great. A recipe will only get you so far but great yeast management, brewing practice and sanitation will carry any serviceable recipe into the great beer category. A really simple recipe of 95% pale ale malt and 5% crystal with hops at 60, 15 and 0 will be great if you do it right.

 

[Quyzi]

It seems like you're getting close to what you want. The above recipe by Don looks tasty. Here's the deal, recipe writing is like cooking. You need to know how much of something to use, when to use it and how warm to use it at. That said you need to do a bit of research. I recommend the book Designing Great Beers by Ray Danielles to anyone serious about recipe writing. It's easy to understand and gives a break down of what grain, hops and yeast to use for each style as well as proportions and when to add them indicated by nifty graphs.

The first thing to know about hops is when to add them. Bittering hops are at 60 minutes and you get no real flavor from it, just bitterness. This is why you shouldn't waste Simcoe or Galaxy or something fancy and expensive at 60 minute additions in my opinion. Magnum is a wonderful clean bittering hop. After that I really like the fifteen minute flavor addition. And then a five minute or flameout aroma addition.

One more quick thing. I said pretty decent because it looks pretty decent with potential to be good or great. A recipe will only get you so far but great yeast management, brewing practice and sanitation will carry any serviceable recipe into the great beer category. A really simple recipe of 95% pale ale malt and 5% crystal with hops at 60, 15 and 0 will be great if you do it right.

I always take extra effort to clean and sanitize everything. I've been making yeast starters for the last several brews and have noticed a real difference compared to when I was just pitching the yeast right from the vial. I was thinking of using WLP515 instead of the California yeast, as it's supposed to make the hoppy flavors and bitterness more distinct. Not sure about it though, as it produces some sulfur. As it is, I'm planning on brewing this next weekend using the grain bill I posted, and DonMagee's hop schedule. I tend to order things online, as my LHBS is not the best and the proprietor is something of an elitist jerk. I'll probably order this weekend Thank you guys!

 

[DonMagee]

Sounds like a good plan. I just wanted to note I threw that together so I forgot to designate how long for the dry hop. For some reason it reads 60 minutes when it should really be 7-10 days.

 

[Quyzi]

Sounds like a good plan. I just wanted to note I threw that together so I forgot to designate how long for the dry hop. For some reason it reads 60 minutes when it should really be 7-10 days.

Yeah, I was thinking of dry hopping for 7 days. Thank you, Don I'll definitely let you guys know how this turns out.

 

[Quyzi]

Just bottled it last night. Tastes great, even uncarbed and warm. My OG and FG were slightly off at 1.061 and 1.016. Now the hard part of waiting for it to carb and age.

Thanks!

 

[Quyzi]

Been a month. This was a triumph, I've made a note here.. Huge success! Cracked open a few bottles with friends. They tried to assault my cellar in hopes of getting more. This is super tasty. Definitely going to brew this one again, need to make sure I've always got some on hand.

It has just enough of a rye hit, and the earthy spiciness of the hops just tastes great. It's a bit thicker than I had anticipated, which is a good thing. Nice deep golden color too, though a little cloudy.

For the first recipe that I haven't stolen from a forum or bought a kit for, this turned out awesome.