Batch sparge too cool?

[etrain666]

I have what is probably a pretty silly question. I have searched the forum and the web and can not get a clear answer.

I am an all grain brewer, have been for about 40 batches now, and I always batch sparge. I use Beer Smith and go by it's numbers. It always says to add 168 degree water. But, it occurs to me now that maybe it means to add water hot enough to raise the mash to 168. If that's the case, I have been way low on every batch.

For what its worth, I get pretty bad efficiency, 60% or lower. I wonder if this could be one of the culprits. Any advice?

 

[BassBeer]

I usually do a batch Sparge with 190° water to ensure the entire grainbed reaches about 168°. That way most of your sugars are in suspension when you run off. I've definitely noticed an increase in my efficiency since I've been doing this.

 

[etrain666]

I guess I am glad to hear that. I have always been frustrated that I get such low efficiency.

 

[mdgagne]

You should be adding water warm enough to raise the grain bed to 168. Most of the time that's water around 185 to 190. Also, stir like hell.

 

[Mojzis]

I believe malfet (maybe?) did some research and batch sparge temp doesn't have an impact on efficiency. Rather, the higher the temp the easier it is to run off wort. The proteins turn quite viscous in my experience lower than 150-ish. No change in efficiency for me.

 

[etrain666]

And of course, I just found this in the sticky...

• When batch sparging, the temperature of the mash-out and/or sparge water influence your extract efficiency. You want to make sure that either your mash-out infusion or your first batch sparge addition are hot enough to raise the grist to as close to 170 F as possible. This allows more sugar to be dissolved and reduces viscosity to facilitate easier lautering, both of which will improve your efficiency.

 

[bandt9299]

Yup I always batch sparge in 2 steps and always need 195 degree plus water to get to 170 degrees. I have heard of temperature not really making a difference but don't buy it, everybody and their brother sparges @ 168 and I'm the brother.

 

[biochemedic]

Recently I've been adding my batch sparge water at near boiling and this gets my grain bed to about 170*F.

 

[brewser7]

Good to know, this could be my problem as well. I just sparge with 170 degree water and get terrible efficiency. I thought it was my mashtun

 

[MalFet]

And of course, I just found this in the sticky...

• When batch sparging, the temperature of the mash-out and/or sparge water influence your extract efficiency. You want to make sure that either your mash-out infusion or your first batch sparge addition are hot enough to raise the grist to as close to 170 F as possible. This allows more sugar to be dissolved and reduces viscosity to facilitate easier lautering, both of which will improve your efficiency.

For what it's worth, I find this bit of the FAQ extremely dubious. For starters, solubility rates are an order of magnitude higher than we'll ever encounter as brewers. Even if it weren't, there's no dissolving happening at sparge time anyway, since the sugars are already in solution. There are some nominal differences in viscosity between 150 and 170, but we're talking about very, very small differences here.

I don't doubt that some people see increased efficiency from a hot mashout, but in every case I strongly suspect that the problem was actually about incomplete conversion. In any case, I've done dozens of batches with 60ºF tap water and dozens of batches with 170ºF mashout, and despite careful measurements I've never noticed a difference between them.

 

[etrain666]

Thanks for the input mal. For an incomplete conversion perspective, should I try longer mash times? I thought I read somewhere that the vast majority of conversion happens in the first 20 minutes.

 

[MalFet]

Thanks for the input mal. For an incomplete conversion perspective, should I try longer mash times? I thought I read somewhere that the vast majority of conversion happens in the first 20 minutes.

It should, but not if you've got pH issues or if your water is having difficulty accessing the starches. I wouldn't recommend lengthening lengthening the mash blindly, but if you're concerned about your efficiency the real task is to figure out where your sugars are going. With some careful measurements you can usually figure this out. Braukaiser's page "Troubleshooting brewhouse efficiency" does a great job of explaining how.

 

[daksin]

If you're batch sparging, there's no need to raise to mashout temps as you're going directly to the boil where your mash profile will be set anyway. There's no 90-120 minute sparge period where enzymes can continue working. Also, sugar is hyper soluble in water, moreso in hot water- there shouldn't be an appreciable difference between 152F and 168F water. Of course, the warmer your sparge water, the less time you'll need to reach a boil.