Belgian Dark Strong Ale The Pious - Westvleteren 12 style quad - multiple

SSBrew - 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
malweth said:
I didn't read this entire thread, but it looks very similar (though not identical) to the recipe on Candi Syrup Inc's Recipes. I am planning on doing this one tomorrow and am referencing your recipe as well.

Running my starter tonight -- probably about 1.5L w/ a pitch each of the WY3787 and WLP530 -- since I have both and they're both a few months old.
Click to expand...

Wanted to make sure we give proper credit. Saq and a small group developed this thread and the original two recipes. We took a simplified version of the Old World and developed it on it's own over the last 2 years. Less Pale, variations in method, etc.
 
CSI said:
Not strictly necessary. *However* we have found that clearing the ale slowly (50-55F) adds a subtlety to the profile not otherwise achievable.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I will put these in the ferm chamber on Monday and hold somehwere in the low 50's for a few days. Then rack to secondary and drop them to the recipe set points for cold conditioning. They were both brewed on Saturday.

Just checked gravities today. Duvel, OG was 1.070, currently at 1.007 (8.27% its pretty much done). Westy 12, OG was 1.090, currently at 1.016 (9.7%, I'm hoping for a 2-3 point drop).
 
Love this thread. Getting ready to brew mine as soon as the ingredients get here. In the mean time, just testing my set up for getting primary to the proper range.

image-1149480823.jpg
 
I used to read this thread regularly a while back and have not kept up. Is anyone a master of this that could summarize the various debates and general knowledge? Are the original recipe posts up to date? Seems like CSI has a lot to contribute, almost like there should be a wiki page about this beer...
 
Just a note of warning to others: mine is very slow or is not going to carbonate. I overshot my OG (102 pts). FG was 14 pts. It sat in primary at 65 degrees for five weeks total before I bottled. I had extra candy syrup and used that instead of table sugar for carbonation. I figured the points of sugar and converted to candy syrup by weight as it has some water content. My target was 3 volumes of CO2. I did not pitch additional yeast. After five weeks in bottles at around 65-70 degrees I have only a small amount carbonation. Either the candy syrup is not very fermentable or the yeast were done for.

It still tastes amazing with no off flavors according to my friends who are more experienced than me. I think it ended at 11.8 abv
 
dlaney said:
Just a note of warning to others: mine is very slow or is not going to carbonate. I overshot my OG (102 pts). FG was 14 pts. It sat in primary at 65 degrees for five weeks total before I bottled. I had extra candy syrup and used that instead of table sugar for carbonation. I figured the points of sugar and converted to candy syrup by weight as it has some water content. My target was 3 volumes of CO2. I did not pitch additional yeast. After five weeks in bottles at around 65-70 degrees I have only a small amount carbonation. Either the candy syrup is not very fermentable or the yeast were done for.

It still tastes amazing with no off flavors according to my friends who are more experienced than me. I think it ended at 11.8 abv
Click to expand...

12%, way too alcoholic to bottle condition without adding fresh yeast. It sounds like it probably will though, just a few months from now. I had a Belgian dark strong that was the same strength as yours, and it actually took and entire year to carbonate. I now use a quarter pack of champagne yeast, hydrated and mixed with the cooled priming solution, never had any problems since.
 
Thanks for the tip. I went back and forth about adding yeast and in the end chose wrongly. Live and learn!
 
dlaney said:
Thanks for the tip. I went back and forth about adding yeast and in the end chose wrongly. Live and learn!
Click to expand...

It's at least encouraging that you have some carbonation. Mine that I mentioned had no carbonation whatsoever at 6 weeks. It was only by shaking the bottles to resuspend the yeast that I got mine to carb, and by the time they did the beer was highly oxidized.
 
Hey; speaking of carbonation...

Update; finally showing some signs after week 5. Mine was 12.1% ABV and I re pitched with 1/2 sachet of rehydrated US-05. It's definitely carbonated but still has some way to go yet.

I brewed the old world on Jan 1 and bottled after around 3 months of lagering.

Don't give up hope. 10 days Prior to this I had no appreciable carbonation. Now I just have to get myself to stop sneaking in there and drinking it all up before it gets some age on it.
It won't be easy though, even now this beer is nothing short of amazing.
 
dlaney said:
Just a note of warning to others: mine is very slow or is not going to carbonate. I overshot my OG (102 pts). FG was 14 pts. It sat in primary at 65 degrees for five weeks total before I bottled. I had extra candy syrup and used that instead of table sugar for carbonation. I figured the points of sugar and converted to candy syrup by weight as it has some water content. My target was 3 volumes of CO2. I did not pitch additional yeast. After five weeks in bottles at around 65-70 degrees I have only a small amount carbonation. Either the candy syrup is not very fermentable or the yeast were done for.

It still tastes amazing with no off flavors according to my friends who are more experienced than me. I think it ended at 11.8 abv
Click to expand...

Not sure which candi syrups you are using but if you are using Candi Syrup, Inc. products, they are brew-tested year-round, (it's exhausting :) ). Fermentability would not be the issue.

A couple of things that *might* be worth looking at, assuming you are following one of the standard recipe's:


  • Mash pH. This Westy clone does best between 5.3 - 5.5.
  • Tweak the mash temp down if you're at or above 151F.
  • Pitch rate based on estimated cell count against an OG target (rather than solely starter volume).
  • If your OG is missing the numbers on the high side using the standard recipe(s) you might be achieving an unexpectedly high efficiency. You may consider adjusting the water profile. (The Denver area suburbs have been cited before in this regard).

Would you be able to post your recipe? There are some very sharp brewers on this thread that would probably be happy to suggest additional angles to a solution.

P.S. we always prime with candi syrup and a repitch of fresh Westmalle krausen (no exceptions...ever).
 
chutracheese said:
a repitch of fresh Westmalle krausen (no exceptions...ever).

Would you mind walking me through your method here?
Click to expand...

Sure. We overlap Westy 12 bottling with new tests. At near bottling time, we initiate another Westmalle Dubbel or Westy 12. At 12-18hrs into new ferment we perform the three steps below:

  • Boil 30g/gal D-180 for priming diluted 2:1 by volume with water for miscibility. For 5 gallons this is 180g syrup and about 1/2 cup water. Cool covered to room temp.
  • Open the new batch fermenter and collect 1/2 cup of top krausen with sterile stainless measuring cup. A little over is fine.
  • Stir in syrup and yeast to finished ale for priming. *Stir gently*. Bottle. Perfect carbonation results every time.
 
ColoHox said:
How much syrup for 5 gal? Do most syrups have similar potential extracts?
Click to expand...

We use a rate of 30g/gal, (some use up to 36g/gal). We use Candi Syrup primarily because it is so highly fermentable. It also adds that last boost of flavor. Not sure about other syrups.
 
CSI said:
[*]Boil 30g/gal D-180 for priming diluted 2:1 by volume with water for miscibility
Click to expand...

Wow, when you said you used syrup at bottling, I always figured you used simplicity or golden so as not to chance throwing off the flavor balance.

I suppose even dark syrup is so fermentable that you don't get much flavor from it(?)

I suppose I'm also surprised b/c I never imagined the Belgian breweries using syrup to repitch.
 
Brewskii said:
Wow, when you said you used syrup at bottling, I always figured you used simplicity or golden so as not to chance throwing off the flavor balance.
Click to expand...

Good point. Any of the syrups can be used for priming. We used to use D-180, then Golden, then Simplicity, now back to D-180. Not a great difference in the final profile but it is noticeable. I think the latest update recipe has Simplicity or Golden for priming.
 
Good to hear. I've got some I purchased almost a year ago for this recipe that I still have not brewed yet! Very soon though, just brewed a tripel with this yeast that is one of my best beers!
 
This came out awesome! I brewed 2 weeks ago Friday. Brought up 2 deg a day though somewhere around 72-74°F I switched to mornings, so only 12 hrs because the beer was already there. I didn't cool (other than with my 62°F basement and a fan in my ferm chamber). I held it at 82°F and cut off the heat on Thursday (so 12-13 days fermenting). Today (day 16) I checked it and it's at SG 1.012 and 10.6°P (calculated 10.9%ABV). It definitely tastes like overly flat, sweet Westvleteren (my Wv12° bottles are from the gift set, Japan sourced).

Q: Do you suggest bottling (I keg)? Do you use standard bottles at 3 vol CO2 or do you buy the Belgian cappable bottles (which I understand take higher pressure more safely). My kegging system has a very hard time with 3+ vol.
 
malweth said:
This came out awesome! I brewed 2 weeks ago Friday. Brought up 2 deg a day though somewhere around 72-74°F I switched to mornings, so only 12 hrs because the beer was already there. I didn't cool (other than with my 62°F basement and a fan in my ferm chamber). I held it at 82°F and cut off the heat on Thursday (so 12-13 days fermenting). Today (day 16) I checked it and it's at SG 1.012 and 10.6°P (calculated 10.9%ABV). It definitely tastes like overly flat, sweet Westvleteren (my Wv12° bottles are from the gift set, Japan sourced).

Q: Do you suggest bottling (I keg)? Do you use standard bottles at 3 vol CO2 or do you buy the Belgian cappable bottles (which I understand take higher pressure more safely). My kegging system has a very hard time with 3+ vol.
Click to expand...

There are some brewers in here that keg and have done it well with this recipe. The actual Westy's are not over 2.7 volumes. We bottle at about 2.5 in standard long-necks, (usually fine up to about 2.9). We also bottle reserve magnum for long term storage in green champagne bottles.
 
I stick around 2.6-2.8 which is due to inability to exactly measure volume. That is fine for standard bottles, depending on the bottle of course. Not all 12oz long necks are equal. Some are very skimp on glass where some are fairly robust. Best advice would be to use bottles from a brewery that bottle conditions beer. So Victory, Sierra Nevada, Bells, and I am sure there are more, but those are some big ones.
 
I keg mine, albeit one batch, it is kegged. The regulator is set to 10 PSI as it is for all three beers under gas.

It seems to be less carbonated than the other beers though (scratching head). For example, a Arrogant Bastard puts out a nice head while the Westy 12 is just a little bit foamy when poured. It's been under gas for several months now and I don't know why it's different.
 
I was going to post brew day details on my first batch not carbonating but decided to wait until I opened a bottle three weeks after rousing the yeast in the bottles. I'm glad to report that I now have strong carbonation! Not sure if it was the gentle rousing or the extra time. I guess the message (like others have said) to be patient with this big beer. Cheers
 
Bottled my clone today after a 6 week primary and 3 month secondary. Bottled half in a combo of bombers and 12 ouncers, and then I put half into these American champagne bottles, corked and capped for long term storage. I'll stick these in the back of the pantry and forget about them for a year. The clone turned out excellent, good work guys. I haven't had a Westy but I've had the Abt and the taste was very similar. My beer has a much cleaner appearance and is slightly less estery but tastes delicious. Can't wait to see what some time does for it. Cheers!

image-458995334.jpg
 
Brewskii said:
Talk about "brew like a monk" .... You must have been saying prayers the whole time :D
Click to expand...

I was. As soon as I got done with the sacch. rest, everything settled and I probably could have fit some more in there.

Hit 1.094 post boil and it's sitting at 80° right now. I have had to change out the blowoff container twice now and actually put some Fermcap S in the blowoff container to try and help.

image-3418676641.jpg
 
Only 17lbs in a 8gal tun? You had plenty of space. I fit 34lbs in my 13 gal tun last year for my imperial stout brew with only .9qts/lb now that was a full mashtun! I hate to be a one upper but I thought it would be funny to mention.

I have to brew this again soon, I only have about 20 bottles left from the last time I made it about a year ago. I'm starting to run out of closet space for beer storage though.
 
smokinghole said:
Only 17lbs in a 8gal tun? You had plenty of space. I fit 34lbs in my 13 gal tun last year for my imperial stout brew with only .9qts/lb now that was a full mashtun! I hate to be a one upper but I thought it would be funny to mention.

I have to brew this again soon, I only have about 20 bottles left from the last time I made it about a year ago. I'm starting to run out of closet space for beer storage though.
Click to expand...

Yes... I just did a 27lb batch of RIS in my 10 gallon tun and could have fit more. I think 30 is my limit.
 
So from anyone who has previously brewed this. The ambient temp of the room that it is fermenting in is about 60° give or take a few degrees. It has free risen to 84 degrees. When should I start thinking about cooling down?

From reading earlier posts, Saq would let his rise to 82, so I'm just wondering when I should start to get worried.
 
PJoyce85 said:
So from anyone who has previously brewed this. The ambient temp of the room that it is fermenting in is about 60° give or take a few degrees. It has free risen to 84 degrees. When should I start thinking about cooling down?

From reading earlier posts, Saq would let his rise to 82, so I'm just wondering when I should start to get worried.
Click to expand...

So without heat, it's fermenting at more than 20 degrees above the room temp?
 
So I figured out the problem. There is some sort of "leak" through the Johnson controller. It is leaving the heat pad turned on. When I unplugged it, it stabilized back at 82. But I didn't have it plugged in until recently. I didn't want it to cool off so I set the SP to 81 on the controller so when fermentation starts slowing that it doesn't cool off too much.

Guess I'll have to take a closer look at the controller
 
lunshbox said:
Wow. What did yo set your thickness to to be able to cram that much grain in a 10 gallon tun?
Click to expand...

Very thick mash. In this case I add my grain to the mash tun and add 190 water until I get my target temp. It probably ends up being only about a quart/lb but I actually get fine efficiency after a double sparge and the beer turns out great.
 
bottlebomber said:
Very thick mash. In this case I add my grain to the mash tun and add 190 water until I get my target temp. It probably ends up being only about a quart/lb but I actually get fine efficiency after a double sparge and the beer turns out great.
Click to expand...

Double batch sparge?
 
lunshbox said:
Double batch sparge?
Click to expand...

Yes, because there was too much grain in the MT to get my full preboil volume in a single sparge addition I broke it up into 2. Got 70% efficiency, which I thought was pretty good considering.
 
bottlebomber said:
Yes, because there was too much grain in the MT to get my full preboil volume in a single sparge addition I broke it up into 2. Got 70% efficiency, which I thought was pretty good considering.
Click to expand...

Fantastic. Thanks for the info. I had a RIS that I ended up brewing on a friend's system (20 gal) because I couldn't figure out how to stuff 25 lbs of grain in my mash tun.
 

Similar threads

D
First Recipe: 1 Gallon Maris Otter / Goldings SMaSH (Comments, suggestions?)
Replies
6
Views
303
Northern_Brewer
Northern_Brewer
Zippy123
Feedback on recipe to split mash for two different beers
Replies
2
Views
388
Zippy123
Zippy123
PashMaddle
Brew day #2 is done.
Replies
22
Views
1K
lumpher
lumpher
S
Autumn Wheat Ale
Replies
5
Views
1K
kwilson16
kwilson16
Clint Yeastwood
Failure Beer
Replies
9
Views
809
Zambezi Special
Zambezi Special
Yakima 300

Latest posts

Back
Top