Camden Tablets - How Soon Is Too Soon To Add My yeast...

[Microphobik]

So I added 8 camden tablets to about 30 Liters of Apple Juice (including a strainer bag of pulp). All the apples were from my trees and then run through a home juicer. I'm pretty concerned about all the potential wild yeast and potential bacteria in the area where I live so I wanted to make sure to give it a good dose of camden tablets while my yeast starter is getting into full force.

My question... It seems the standard advice is to wait 12 - 24 hours before adding my yeast to the must. I'm just wondering how much of a risk there is if I add my yeast towards the earlier part of that range, say 12 - 18 hours?

Or is there a chance the camden tablets will not have worn off and I might kill my yeast starter when I add that? Is there even a risk of that happening at 24 hours?

I am in a very wet, tropical part of New Zealand. Just picture a CostaRican jungle and you'll have a pretty good idea of my backyard I have a sense that acetobacter is a real risk here, especially with apples picked from a tree, and all the inevitable exposure they get while going through a juicer, try as I have to keep things sterile.

I don't have much experience with camden tablets but felt they were a must where I now live and just wanted to get a better feel for what that line is between too much camden still in the must, and too much exposure to wild yeast and bacteria.

Thanks for any help.

 

[brazedowl]

Well they're pretty much just used to smite the wild yeasties. The yeast you buy in a packet is pretty tolerant of the sulfur. You're probably ok.

 

[Microphobik]

Ah, I see, I didn't realize that. Good to know. So was i mistaken in thinking that the Camden tablets help kill, or at least stifle bacteria? That's making me think I should get my yeast in there sooner, rather than later. Say 12 hours or so... That sound safe to everyone?

I have made fruit wines and ciders before but never from juice that I had pressed. While I kept everything covered and sterilized whenever possible, I had 90 lbs of apples to juice. It took hours. There was so much exposure to god-knows-what in the air and on the fruit itself that it all seemed like a potential disaster in terms of bad stuff in their. Am I over worrying about it? How do most contend with this?

 

[Inner10]

Ah, I see, I didn't realize that. Good to know. So was i mistaken in thinking that the Camden tablets help kill, or at least stifle bacteria? That's making me think I should get my yeast in there sooner, rather than later. Say 12 hours or so... That sound safe to everyone?

I have made fruit wines and ciders before but never from juice that I had pressed. While I kept everything covered and sterilized whenever possible, I had 90 lbs of apples to juice. It took hours. There was so much exposure to god-knows-what in the air and on the fruit itself that it all seemed like a potential disaster in terms of bad stuff in their. Am I over worrying about it? How do most contend with this?

I always wait 24 hours...never tried anything else.

 

[Yooper]

I always wait 24 hours...never tried anything else.

I generally wait 24 hours also, but have gone earlier with good results.

Campden DOES sanitize the must from wild yeast and bacteria- that's why we use it. Wine yeast, though, is pretty tolerate of sulfites. In large doses, you can stun them so it's more reasonable (and common) to add them after 24 hours so the sulfites (which kill the other microbes) can dissipate a bit before adding your chosen wine yeast.

I can think of no reason to rush the process and add the yeast sooner than 24 hours.

 

[Microphobik]

Okay great, thanks. I'll stick with 24 hours. I was just concerned that if the camden tablets didn't kill bacteria I should probably get the yeast going as fast as possible, but if it does then I think 24 hours will be smart.

I may be making a silly assumption but I have a neighbor who's cider went to Vinegar and I save save tomato seeds (which is a fermentation process) and I'm always surprised by how quickly the must turns to vinegar, so I have this fear that acetobacter is everywhere around here and just want to do all I can to keep it at bay, hence the urge to rush. But it sounds like 24 hours is the way to go.

Thanks again.

 

[Yooper]

Okay great, thanks. I'll stick with 24 hours. I was just concerned that if the camden tablets didn't kill bacteria I should probably get the yeast going as fast as possible, but if it does then I think 24 hours will be smart.

I may be making a silly assumption but I have a neighbor who's cider went to Vinegar and I save save tomato seeds (which is a fermentation process) and I'm always surprised by how quickly the must turns to vinegar, so I have this fear that acetobacter is everywhere around here and just want to do all I can to keep it at bay, hence the urge to rush. But it sounds like 24 hours is the way to go.

Thanks again.

Well, the interesting thing about aceterobacterii is that it doesn't feed on sugar. It feeds on alcohol. In order to make vinegar, there was to be alcohol in the substance. It "eats" the alcohol in cider, wine, malt (etc) to make vinegars. So, yes, once fermentation starts, you must make sure to keep fruitflies (the main carriers of aceterbacter) totally away by covering the must with a towel in primary, and later with an airlock with the wine topped up. (Aceterobacter also needs oxygen).

If you sanitize the must, keep fruitflies out, and top up the wine (or cider) after fermentation and airlock it, it can NOT be contaminated with aceterbacter and turn to vinegar.

 

[Microphobik]

Okay, wonderful. Thanks for the info. I couldn't find a clear explanation of the risk and how it happens. That really helps and I didn't realize it needed the alcohol to be present. I am as anal as van be about sterilization and keeping ozygen out, and in fact have never had a batch go off, but this is my first home brew in almost 15 years and I've gone from Los Angeles to a very rural part of New Zealand where things are infinity wetter so I was concerned. But I will definitely keep the must as clear from oxygen as possible and there is no chance a fly is getting in this thing

One thing though, I noticed you mentioned a towel for the first fermentation as apposed to an airlock... I have seen people do both, I was planning on using an air locked bucket fermenter for the primary fermentation. Anything wrong with that so long as the must gets a nice stir before the yeast goes in?

 

[Yooper]

Okay, wonderful. Thanks for the info. I couldn't find a clear explanation of the risk and how it happens. That really helps and I didn't realize it needed the alcohol to be present. I am as anal as van be about sterilization and keeping ozygen out, and in fact have never had a batch go off, but this is my first home brew in almost 15 years and I've gone from Los Angeles to a very rural part of New Zealand where things are infinity wetter so I was concerned. But I will definitely keep the must as clear from oxygen as possible and there is no chance a fly is getting in this thing

One thing though, I noticed you mentioned a towel for the first fermentation as apposed to an airlock... I have seen people do both, I was planning on using an air locked bucket fermenter for the primary fermentation. Anything wrong with that so long as the must gets a nice stir before the yeast goes in?

No, that's fine. I often add fruit to my musts, so it's easier to stir when it's in a bucket and without a lid and airlock. But if you want to use a lid and airlock, that's fine.

 

[Microphobik]

Great, thanks again.