BJCP Tasting Exam

[nukebrewer]

Does anyone know why it takes so long to get results? 4-6 months seems like way too long. I think my buddies got their Bar Exam results back faster!! Honestly though are the scoresheets sent out to Grand Master judges or do the proctors grade the score sheets?

As I understand it, the examinees' score sheets along with those of the proctors are sent to the BJCP where a National or Master judge will grade it then a secondary grading is done by a Grand Master to verify the results. The reason it takes so long is because they have exams coming in almost constantly from all over the country (world?) and they only have so many people available to grade them.

 

[AmandaK]

Does anyone know why it takes so long to get results? 4-6 months seems like way too long. I think my buddies got their Bar Exam results back faster!! Honestly though are the scoresheets sent out to Grand Master judges or do the proctors grade the score sheets?

It's a volunteer based organization with not a not of help.

As I understand it, the examinees' score sheets along with those of the proctors are sent to the BJCP where a National or Master judge will grade it then a secondary grading is done by a Grand Master to verify the results. The reason it takes so long is because they have exams coming in almost constantly from all over the country (world?) and they only have so many people available to grade them.

You are correct, sir!

 

[Darwin18]

I received my tasting exam results from the November 2012 exam I took here in Raleigh. I scored a 70, which is good enough for "Certified" but seeing as I haven't yet judged a competition, I'll be at "Recognized" for a little while. It took a while to get the results but I'm pleased with the score. I think after I obtain some actual judging experience that I might be able to score higher, but I'm very pleased.

 

[Pappers_]

I received my tasting exam results from the November 2012 exam I took here in Raleigh. I scored a 70, which is good enough for "Certified" but seeing as I haven't yet judged a competition, I'll be at "Recognized" for a little while. It took a while to get the results but I'm pleased with the score. I think after I obtain some actual judging experience that I might be able to score higher, but I'm very pleased.

Congratulations! Welcome to the "Recognized Beer Judge" club! I'll have enough experience points to get pushed up to Certified by the end of March, also. I'm with you, I think after a year or so of competition judging experience, I'll be able to add a few points to the tasting exam. Like in everything, experience matters.

 

[Darwin18]

Exactly! My first competition as a judge is in a few weeks (Shamrock 2013 - Carboy) and I'm really excited to go through the process and learn as much as possible. I've entered several competitions and done well, but I think it will help my brewing so much more to taste the beers that score well so that I can compare to my own. Any suggestions Pappers for a first time judge?

 

[Pappers_]

Any suggestions Pappers for a first time judge?

I've judged in exactly two competitions, as well as a couple club-only competitions, so I'm not the one you want to get advice from

I was fortunate at my first competition to be paired with a National judge who was patient and helpful.

 

[nukebrewer]

Congrats, Darwin! I hope to join the ranks soon. I took my exam exactly one month and a day ago and while I know the results are more than likely still a couple months away I am getting quite impatient. Not like in an I'm angry at the BJCP kind of way, just excited to find out whether I made the cut.

 

[lunchbox]

Exactly! My first competition as a judge is in a few weeks (Shamrock 2013 - Carboy) and I'm really excited to go through the process and learn as much as possible. I've entered several competitions and done well, but I think it will help my brewing so much more to taste the beers that score well so that I can compare to my own. Any suggestions Pappers for a first time judge?

Oddly enough, that competition is going to be my first as well. Of course it will be entering and not judging. If you get the stout or specialty beers, enjoy my beer!

 

[AmandaK]

Any suggestions Pappers for a first time judge?

Have candid conversations with the more experienced judges among you.

Be open to discussion after filling out a score sheet with the other judge. Ask those who are more experienced/have had sensory training to really describe what they mean with descriptors that you many not understand or may not pick up on.

Be humble - some judges have been doing this for 5, 10, 15+ years - you could learn a lot by just watching and listening! (You would be surprised at the amount of cockiness some people can exude after just passing their test - yes, it is a feat, but there is so much more to learn! Luckily, very few people have done this - but it is quite strange. )

Hope that helps!

 

[Darwin18]

Thanks AmandaK - that's really good advice. I've been talking with one of the judges who is active in the first competition that I'll be judging at and he's offered to meet with him and go over want to expect beforehand. I really just want to get more experience trying a wide array of styles and really get taste beers that range from dumpers to exceptional. I think it will really help to be a better brewer. I'll try to keep my cockiness level down! Any recommendations on what I should actually bring with me besides water, crackers, mechanical pencils? I printed out a copy of the BJCP guidelines and put them in a binder intending to use them as a reference.

 

[LKABrewer]

Go to the bjcp site and get the label format to print out labels with your name rank and email address. It is a pain to write all of that on each score sheet

 

[UnDeadPresident]

Another option is Better Beer Scores.

The folks offering this service are members in a couple of local clubs and are all fantastic brewers, judges and educators.

I took this course about a year and a half ago. I was in the inaugural class so they were still working out the bugs, but despite that the class was really good and actually helped me pinpoint some flaws and remedies in my own homebrew. Haven't taken the BJCP tests yet though, so I can't really speak to the class' efficacy on helping there. They did teach the course more from the perspective of taking and passing the tests, rather than understanding all of the minutiae behind brewing and the flaws that can come with it. Again, that was 18 months ago, so it may have changed since then.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks AmandaK - that's really good advice. I've been talking with one of the judges who is active in the first competition that I'll be judging at and he's offered to meet with him and go over want to expect beforehand. I really just want to get more experience trying a wide array of styles and really get taste beers that range from dumpers to exceptional. I think it will really help to be a better brewer. I'll try to keep my cockiness level down! Any recommendations on what I should actually bring with me besides water, crackers, mechanical pencils? I printed out a copy of the BJCP guidelines and put them in a binder intending to use them as a reference.

Bring labels! You can get the template at the BJCP website, or just look at them and make your own, but it gets tiring writing out your name, BJCP number and email address on each and every score sheet. Bring a sheet or two of your own labels, and slap them on the scoresheet.

Having the guidelines in a binder gets in the way- a simple staple makes it easier to use and flip pages and gives you more room to write and score. People with smart phones have the guidelines on their phone, which is nice because it's small. the table space tends to be pretty limited! If you have trouble adding the scores quickly, don't be ashamed to use a little pocket calculator. After sampling 12 beers, adding the scores (and writing out your info) can be tedious so take shortcuts if you can!

 

[Darwin18]

Good stuff Yooper. Thanks!

 

[AmandaK]

I've been talking with one of the judges who is active in the first competition that I'll be judging at and he's offered to meet with him and go over want to expect beforehand.

Great idea!

I really just want to get more experience trying a wide array of styles and really get taste beers that range from dumpers to exceptional.

First time I've ever heard anyone want to drink a dumper! I've had beers that have smelled like a dried cow turd that was rained on, dragged through a field of freshly cut hay and then dried out again. Judging beer is somewhat like Russian roulette - you never know what you're gonna get!

I think it will really help to be a better brewer.

This has been especially true for me.

Any recommendations on what I should actually bring with me besides water, crackers, mechanical pencils? I printed out a copy of the BJCP guidelines and put them in a binder intending to use them as a reference.

A well-run competition will have all of these things for you, including labels. I usually just bring my name badge and a bottle of water (I drink a lot of water) - I've seen others bring a favorite pencil.

A good thing to bring would be this set of PDF flash cards: http://www.beerjudgeschool.com/uploads/Beer_Characteristics_Flash_Cards.pdf After all, constructive feedback is what we're after, not just: "Color: good, Flavor: good." or "I like this beer!"

 

[WilliamWS]

I'm thinking I'm going to start bringing my own tasting glass. I've noticed that I'm pretty sensitive to plasticy phenols and getting past the plastic smell of the cups can be a bit of a challenge for me sometimes, especially for lighter styles. Also, after seeing how many cups we went through at the comp that I judged a couple of weeks ago (763 entries) it just seems like such a waste.

 

[Phunhog]

Judged at my first comp yesterday!! Learned a lot and had a good time but I now know what palate fatigue is all about. Since they were short a few judges my partner and I judged two flights (Light Hybrids and IPA's) for a total of 14 beers. I think it was just too much...towards the end ( almost 4 hours) we just wanted to finish. It was much harder to put into words what I was tasting, smelling, seeing than I thought it would be. I have a question for you experienced judges....how long do you spend on each beer? I know when you take the Tasting Exam you only have 15 minutes but what about a real comp? I was doing the math in my head yesterday and if we took 15 mintues per beer and took no breaks it would take 3.5 hours!! That is a long time to do anything without a break!!

 

[nukebrewer]

Judged at my first comp yesterday!! Learned a lot and had a good time but I now know what palate fatigue is all about. Since they were short a few judges my partner and I judged two flights (Light Hybrids and IPA's) for a total of 14 beers. I think it was just too much...towards the end ( almost 4 hours) we just wanted to finish. It was much harder to put into words what I was tasting, smelling, seeing than I thought it would be. I have a question for you experienced judges....how long do you spend on each beer? I know when you take the Tasting Exam you only have 15 minutes but what about a real comp? I was doing the math in my head yesterday and if we took 15 mintues per beer and took no breaks it would take 3.5 hours!! That is a long time to do anything without a break!!

When I judged in my first comp (as a novice) my partners (different partners for each of two flights I judged) and I were averaging about 5 minutes per beer.

 

[Wynne-R]

Are you sure? Five minutes is pretty quick to fill out a scoresheet.

BJCP Judges Procedure says the Judge Director should :

Allow 2 ½ hours for each session. Experienced judges can evaluate 12 entries in two hours - approximately 10 minutes per entry.

 

[nukebrewer]

Are you sure? Five minutes is pretty quick to fill out a scoresheet.

BJCP Judges Procedure says the Judge Director should :

Maybe my perception was skewed by being nervous about my first judging experience, but that's about how long I felt like it took for each beer. At least to get to the point where we were discussing each other's scores, which was only a couple minutes at most.

 

[LAjerm]

My exam consisted of the following beers, in the order given, I had to judge each quickly, as the exam is timed and the beers just keep coming ready or not:

1) Hopback Amber Ale Tröegs Brewing Co.:fantastic example, I was little harder on it than the proctors

2) Blonde Ale : this was probably a homebrewed example, and was seriously flawed. It was infected, cloudy, estery, phenolic, and the most important that they were trying to pick up, Astringent. The exam director added a touch of lactic acid to pull out the astringency even more. It was really just horrible wretched.

3) Traditional Bock - A great beer, actually a homebrew from Charlie Milan, our states only nationally ranked BJCP judge.

4) Belgian Dark Strong Ale - They tried to Fool us, it was actually a perfect bottle of Chimay Red, which is a Belgian Dubbel, not a dark strong, very similar, but not quite right.

5) Scottish Export - A beer so flawed and infected no one, even the Grand Master Level Three proctor could tell this was actually an Oktoberfest Lager.

6) American Pale Ale. - We had a perfect sample of Celebration Ale, which while fantastic, is not too style. So I was lucky enough to pick up the fact that it was too big and too hoppy for a APA, but still an excellent beer.

 

[WilliamWS]

You're lucky. At my tasting exam it was all homebrew and only one was over a 25 (and not by a lot). Two were under 20. It was rough.
I would much rather taste/decribe good beer that's miscategorized or missing some of the finer nuances of the style than partake in the asparagus/cheese/cardboard/cough medicine buffet that was served to us.

 

[Darwin18]

LAjerm - Sounds like you did well!

 

[LAjerm]

You're lucky. At my tasting exam it was all homebrew and only one was over a 25 (and not by a lot). Two were under 20. It was rough.
I would much rather taste/decribe good beer that's miscategorized or missing some of the finer nuances of the style than partake in the asparagus/cheese/cardboard/cough medicine buffet that was served to us.

The Proctors rated the #6 beer a 47! despite being out of style. The #2 and #5 beers were horid, so I had my share of extreme flaws.

 

[LAjerm]

LAjerm - Sounds like you did well!

I was lucky enough to have good teachers (Thank you Shady Grove Brewmaster!, and Bob Carbone), an excellent Study group that has met twice a month for over a year, and more importantly, real world judging experiance.

 

[LAjerm]

Just got my score in, Passed with a 74

 

[Wynne-R]

Congratulations. You can get one of those nifty badges now. We always need more judges.

When did you take it? Last I heard it was about six months to grade.

 

[LAjerm]

Congratulations. You can get one of those nifty badges now. We always need more judges.

When did you take it? Last I heard it was about six months to grade.

End of Feb... they say its an average of about 100 days now.

 

[nukebrewer]

End of Feb... they say its an average of about 100 days now.

Yeah, sounds about right. I took mine in mid-January and got my results back at almost the end of April.

 

[Pappers_]

Yeah, sounds about right. I took mine in mid-January and got my results back at almost the end of April.

Sounds like they are catching up on the back log of exams they had. It was a little more than 180 days for the exam I took last July.

 

[Piratwolf]

Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread. I managed to get a stand-by slot for tomorrow, which is very exciting. Downside is that I was studying daily for 6 months or so until January but then got sick (no smell/taste--really bad cold) and had to give up my spot... then couldn't find another and gave up on it for a while.

Looks like I'll be cramming the guidelines HARD this afternoon! The only thing I have going for me is having brewed a lot and judged in 8 competitions, some with National judges who have been incredibly helpful.

Wish me luck!

 

[nukebrewer]

Good luck!

 

[Pappers_]

Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread. I managed to get a stand-by slot for tomorrow, which is very exciting. Downside is that I was studying daily for 6 months or so until January but then got sick (no smell/taste--really bad cold) and had to give up my spot... then couldn't find another and gave up on it for a while.

Looks like I'll be cramming the guidelines HARD this afternoon! The only thing I have going for me is having brewed a lot and judged in 8 competitions, some with National judges who have been incredibly helpful.

Wish me luck!

I have a feeling you won't need luck, especially if you've judged in 8 competitions with experienced judging partners.

 

[Darwin18]

I have a feeling you won't need luck, especially if you've judged in 8 competitions with experienced judging partners.

+1

My only advice is to remember to describe in detail exactly what your senses are telling you with regards to the score sheets. If you can really articulate what you're sensing then you're going to score very well. Just remember not to interpret too heavily on a flaw but focus on ways to reduce that flaw in the feedback session.

 

[Piratwolf]

Thanks!!!!