When to start diacetyl rest for lager

[Brewrifle]

Pitched Wyeast 2308 Munich Lager yeast at 60 degrees this past Saturday evening for a German Pilsner. The OG was 1.052, the gravity reading as of Wednesday was 1.010. I brought the temp down to 50 on Sunday evening.
So my question you folks is when should I do a diacetyl rest at 62 for two days, given how fast the fermentation appears to be going even at 50 degrees?

I was originally thinking of going 12 days at 50, then raise it to 62 for 2 days, then rack to secondary and add gelatin, then transfer to the keg for 1 1/2 months of lagering.

Thanks ahead of time.

 

[goodgodilovebeer]

I think you may have fermented far too warm. It would have been better to ferment at 50f, then raise to 60f. How much yeast did you pitch?

 

[Brewrifle]

I initially only pitched 1 swollen Wyeast pack, but after what I thought was a slow fermentation, I decided to add another swollen Wyeast pack of 2308 Munich Lager.

It was only at 60 for a day (Saturday night to Sunday night) just after pitching until I saw bubbles, then I turned it down to 50 degrees and that's where it has been now since Sunday night.

Are you thinking that I don't even need a diacetyl rest now, given the initial 60 degree temp it was at for 1 day? When I tried the 1.010 sample I got no buttery flavor whatsoever, so I'm a bit perturbed.

 

[kombat]

Yeast create the majority of their esters and other flavour elements in those critical first few days of fermentation, including during the lag period (while yours was at 60°F, from Saturday to Sunday night), so some damage may have already been done. That said, I would still do a diacetyl rest at room temperature for 2-4 days (starting now, if it's already at FG) before lagering. And I wouldn't add gelatin until the end of lagering, if it's needed at all. The yeast are still working and cleaning up during lagering (just very, very slowly), so there's no need to remove them. They'll drop on their own when they're done.

 

[Brewrifle]

What sort of damage could have been done with it at 60 for a day? Since most of the yeasts life in the wort was at 50, I'd assume it should still have the done most of the conversion at 50.

 

[goodgodilovebeer]

Yeast create the majority of their esters and other flavour elements in those critical first few days of fermentation, including during the lag period

^ Very true.

Although, it's a good sign that you can't detect diacetyl from a young sample. It may be a little estery, but if you're happy with it in the end, who cares, right?

For the record, I'm of the "pitch a lot and pitch it cold" for lagers camp.

 

[isleofman]

You heavily underpitched as well. Lagers need about 2x the amount of yeast that ale's do. You would have needed over 4 packs of liquid yeast for a lager @ 1.052 to be pitched correctly. This would contribute to your "slow start".

Kombat is right, that first 18 - 24 hours is when a lot of off flavors will be produced due to high temps.

 

[Pratzie]

At the very least, still go with a D-rest to give the yeast a chance to clean up after themselves. U may get some esters or off flavors cuz of the ferment and under pitching but the most u can really do to try and fix it at this point (at least that i can think of) is the D-Rest.

Maybe someone with a bit more experience with lagers can offer some better advice. Just keep the above mentioned comments in mind the next time u do a lager, especially with regards to pitching rates and ferment temps at the start.

 

[Brewrifle]

I did a diaceytl rest for 2 days and then dropped the temp to 36 degrees for a few days before transferring it to the keg to lager at 33. The FG ended up at 1.010 from an OG of 1.050, so I'm happy with that. The flavor still doesn't yield any buttery notes in both aroma and taste so I'm thinking I may be in the clear. I'm going to let it lager for 1 1/2 months, so we'll see how it tastes after that.

 

[shuckit]

I've used that yeast once and it was a butter ball for a couple weeks, even after the d-rest. Cleaned up fine after lager and would use again.

 

[Brewrifle]

What temp did you lager at? I'm shooting for 33, but I'm nervous that my freezer might get too low and actually freeze the beer, even with the digital Johnson temperature regulator.

 

[goodgodilovebeer]

Set it for 2-3 Celcius and walk away. Unless you suspect your controller is f'n with you.