US-05: 1 or 2 11.5g Packets for my Brew?

[Andrew82]

I'm planning to brew a 5-gallon batch of IPA tomorrow with the following characteristics:

Grain (mash at 154 F for 60 mins):
11 lbs 2-row
1 lb crystal malt

The projected OG is 1.059 and projected FG is 1.013. My BeerSmith 3 software is telling me I need 1.2 11.5g packets to get there. I've used partial packets before but would prefer to use one.

Do you think I should just use the one, rehydrating as I normally do, or just play it safe and toss two in there? Nothing more frustrating to me than fermentation stopping a few points short.

 

[IslandLizard]

Yeah, that's a toss up. I like to see what others think of it.

If it were me, I'd make a 1-2 liter starter with one pack the day before and pitch that.

 

[deadwolfbones]

1 packet of dry yeast is plenty for a 5 gallon batch, and no rehydration is necessary. I just pitched half a packet into 3.5 gallons of 1.053 pale ale and it fermented fully in 4 days.

edit: actually just did a gravity check and it dried out more than I wanted it to. tastes great, tho.

 

[philm63]

The last IPA I brewed in March was a 5-gallon batch (6.5 gallons into the fermenter); it clocked in at 1.065 OG and for giggles I pitched just one packet of US-05 into it - direct pitch, no rehydration. I had been using 2 packets for similar brews and thought I'd try just one this time - worked perfectly, good clean fermentation. Finished at 1.012. No problems with fermentation using just one packet.

 

[dmtaylor]

All you need is 1/2 pack, no rehydration, no special treatment, just sprinkle it in. Everybody overpitches dry yeast. Lengthy discussion here:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=27438.0

 

[Carolina_Matt]

I've never pitched more than 1 pack. Most of my beers are in the 1.050-1.060 range, and I have never run into an issue.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Some more perspective: I pitched two packs, dry, into 6 gallons of 1.121 OG pastry stout and it took it to 1.037 (again, below my target FG).

 

[Andrew82]

I really appreciate everyones' replies!

The reason I posed the question is because the each time I've pitched only one re-hydrated pack of US-05 (only brewed with it a handful of times) the yeast brings my FG down exactly the number of points calculated in BeerSmith but no further. For most people this is right on the money but for me--still trying to lock in my mashes--it can be problematic because I often get 3-5 more gravity points out of my mash than I planned.

We'll see how it goes today and I'll report back.

 

[Andrew82]

Yeah, that's a toss up. I like to see what others think of it.

If it were me, I'd make a 1-2 liter starter with one pack the day before and pitch that.

Also, for future reference: would you please explain to me how one would go about making a starter for dry yeast? I haven't been able to find a good method for it (assuming it's different from a liquid yeast starter in any way).

Thank you!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

All you need is 1/2 pack, no rehydration, no special treatment, just sprinkle it in.

I need to give this a try. I'm getting good results using pitching rates based on the home brew kits that got me started - but it's always good to try something new.

Yeah, that's a toss up. I like to see what others think of it.

It wasn't too many years ago (2015, 2016) that someone suggesting pitching without re-hydrating would be accused of killing half the yeast.

Now we're considering making a starter to avoid a partial package of yeast - based on an model in a piece of software where we don't get to see the model, the algorithms, or how the algorithms were implemented.

FWIW, Fermentis has, since 2004-ish, been pretty consistent about pitching dry or re-hydrating. Via "internet archives", summary directions for use as of Oct 2004:

The yeast can be re-hydrated into a cream prior to pitching or added dry, direct to the fermenting vessel. ...

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Willing to consider a recommendation from the maker of US-05?

What is the recommended pitch rate for E2UTM by Fermentis ADY?

ADY is dry yeast biomass with almost no water (94-97% dry matter). A pitch rate in weight per volume (grams per hectoliter) is the most accurate way, for ADY, to achieve consistency in your fermentations time after time. For E2UTM by Fermentis ale strains we recommend a pitch rate of 50-80 gr/hL (2.06-3.3 oz/bbl); and 80-120 gr/hL (3.3-4.95 oz/bbl) for our lagers strains. In other words, one 11.5grs sachet (0.406 oz) is good for 5 gallons for ales and two 11.5g sachets for 5 gallons for lagers. For high gravity beers (over 18°P) it is better to pitch 2 sachets per 5 gallons brew.

18°P is 74 SG - Plato To SG Conversion Chart - Brewer's Friend

 

[VikeMan]

Willing to consider a recommendation from the maker of US-05?



18°P is 74 SG - Plato To SG Conversion Chart - Brewer's Friend

I have a peeve regarding the pitch "rate" instructions issued by several of the yeast manufacturers, so I guess I might as well spill it here. If everyone can agree (wishful thinking on my part) that for each recipe/style/brewer's goal, there is some notional ideal pitch rate (count per volume per gravity), then why the "dumbed down" instructions?

Not to pick on Fermentis, but since that's the current example... they say to pitch X grams into 5 gallons. But if the gravity is higher than 18P (1.074), pitch 2X.

An oft quoted default pitch rate for ales, and IMO a reasonable one in the absence of a brewer's goals that might tweak it up/down, is 750K cells per ml per degree plato. Assuming Fermentis yeast sachets contain 200B cells as often claimed (but not in Fermentis' own specs...discussion for another day), here's how their recommended "rate" looks compared to the oft quoted default rate I mentioned above.

My point is not to argue the best pitch rates, but to question why some yeast manufacturers recommend "rates" that are not rates (in count per vol per gravity) at all.

 

[3 Dawg Night]

My point is not to argue the best pitch rates, but to question why some yeast manufacturers recommend "rates" that are not rates (in count per vol per gravity) at all.

I think it's a semantic argument: 1 packet is sufficient for 18P, but not for 19P. Assuming that overpitching is prefereable to underpitching, a lot of folks will gladly eat the <$5 cost of a second packet of yeast in order to avoid having to weigh out a more accurate (or "ideal") amount of yeast.

Personally, I use a calculator to determine the ideal amount of dry yeast (based on .75M/ml/P), weight it out, rehydrate, and pitch. Take that with a grain of salt (or yeast), though, because I've only brewed three batches of beer!

 

[VikeMan]

I think it's a semantic argument: 1 packet is sufficient for 18P, but not for 19P.

My counter to that argument would be that if 1 sachet isn't "enough" for 19P, then it's damn near not enough, i.e. it's under pitching, for 18P.

Personally, I use a calculator to determine the ideal amount of dry yeast (based on .75M/ml/P), weight it out, rehydrate, and pitch. Take that with a grain of salt (or yeast), though, because I've only brewed three batches of beer!

I think that demonstrates wisdom beyond your batch count.

 

[Dland]

I regularly use only one pack, direct dry pitched US-05 for ten gallons of 1.060 gravity wort. I have never had a problem with viability, fermentation speed or final gravity. Over pitching will not necesarly lower finish gravity, by the way, perhaps just speed fermetation by a day or so.

 

[3 Dawg Night]

My counter to that argument would be that if 1 sachet isn't "enough" for 19P, then it's damn near not enough, i.e. it's under pitching, for 18P.

My point is that if one packet is the perfect/ideal amount for 18P, and Fermentis wanted to make sure you're always either perfectly on point or overpitching (never underpitching), 18+P is the point at which they tell you to move up to two packets.

Although, looking at your chart above, there appears to be a region between 14-18P where you'd be under the .75M/ml/P rate, using Fermentis' recommendation.

To throw another monkey wrench into the gears, Brewer's Friend recommends bumping up to 1M/ml/P for "big ales" above 1.060, so that would steepen the slope of your plot above ~15P even more. Fermentis makes no such recommendation (that I can find). I'm not sure what to do with that one; I'd love to hear some opinions!

I think that demonstrates wisdom beyond your batch count.

Aw, now I'm blushing!

 

[VikeMan]

To throw another monkey wrench into the gears, Brewer's Friend recommends bumping up to 1M/ml/P for "big ales" above 1.060, so that would steepen the slope of your plot above ~15P even more. Fermentis makes no such recommendation (that I can find). I'm not sure what to do with that one; I'd love to hear some opinions!

There's a couple schools of thought on that. One is that you're covering the gravity of really big worts by virtue of applying a standard rate, which of course already multiplies by degrees P.

OTOH, there's that recipe/style/brewer's goal thing I mentioned before. For example, when I make really big imperial stouts (usually with WLP001), I want to really limit the esters produced, by "over" pitching. For those, I pitch at a rate that is closer to a typical lager pitch rate, i.e. 1.5B/ml/Deg P, and keep fermentation temps very low.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I have a peeve regarding ... so I guess I might as well spill it here

OK.

I may be listening quietly to this part of the discussion as I'm curious to see if there is any additional discussion around reply #5.