Clear beer into fermentor with plate chiller?

[MachineShopBrewing]

Ok. Has anyone figured out how to keep all the hop and break material in the kettle when using a pump and plate/CFC?

I am going on my third brew with a new 25 gallon concord kettle. I have modified it with a valve port and I also added a tangential port for whirlpooling. I have a SS dip tube on it the is about .125" off the bottom near the edge. My process so far has been to recirc to sanitize to loop with boiling wort and then shut the flame off for my whirlpool hop addition. I then whip up a whirlpool with my brew spoon and let it rest for ~20 minutes as I don't want to recirc a bunch of pellet hops through my plate chiller. I like to replicate how the pro brewers run their process, and I don't really like the various hop bag items. I like the pellets to free ball in my wort.

I haven't had a issue with the hop pellets clogging up anything as my kettle is wide and they all settle to the middle with the whirlpool. However, I want to keep the cold break out of my carboys somehow. Up until now I have been pumping through the plate chiller and back into my whirlpool return port. This seems to keep the break out ok, but my chilling speed sucks as I suspect it just keeps grabbing the same wort swirling around the edge of the kettle and pumping it through the chiller loop.

I have thought about adding another whole kettle to the system to use as a whirlpool, but then I would have to worry about sanitation with that being on the cold side. Plus, that is a bit extreme. A conical would solve all my problems, but its not in the budget at this point.

I was thinking of mounting an immersion chiller into my kettle around the edges and pumping it "Jamil" style, but I don't think that would work any better than my plate chiller for speed.

Has anyone conquered this issue yet?

Please don't respond with "I get all the cold break in my fermentor and it doesn't cause any problems with my beer." I get it, but I like clear wort going into my fermentor. With my old kettle, I used an IC and let it settle for an hour or so before racking. Now I am doing 10-15 gallon batches and don't really want to use an IC anymore without some kind of flow over it, plus I like having the lid on the kettle after I get below 170 as I am anal about sanitation.

 

[Yooper]

Please don't respond with "I get all the cold break in my fermentor and it doesn't cause any problems with my beer." I get it, but I like clear wort going into my fermentor. With my old kettle, I used an IC and let it settle for an hour or so before racking. Now I am doing 10-15 gallon batches and don't really want to use an IC anymore without some kind of flow over it, plus I like having the lid on the kettle after I get below 170 as I am anal about sanitation.

Well, you don't want me to respond that way- but it's true. The wort is still clear in the fermenter, but it's got some cold break in it that falls to the bottom. I have a CFC and pump. I recirculate until 120 degrees, and then send to the fermenter.

Otherwise, you could recirculate until you get all the cold break in the kettle, and then whirlpool and siphon to the fermenter.

 

[MachineShopBrewing]

I get that some people don't mind cold break in the fermentor. I like clear wort in mine, just a personal preference. I will eventually figure something out, but I figured I would check with the forum before I try to reinvent the wheel.



*****Dup post, please delete********

 

[MachineShopBrewing]

I get that some people don't mind cold break in the fermentor. I like clear wort in mine, just a personal preference. Without rehashing the whole trub vs no trub argument, it is proven that there can be long term stability issues with the break down of fatty acids. I will eventually figure something out, but I figured I would check with the forum before I try to reinvent the wheel.

I suppose I could just bite the bullet and get a conical, that way I can just drop the trub before pitching, but the budget won't allow for that right now. That is the long term solution.

 

[mpcluever]

You can recirculate back to the same kettle using a false bottom and some leaf hops to act as a filter. Catches a lot of break.

 

[MachineShopBrewing]

You can recirculate back to the same kettle using a false bottom and some leaf hops to act as a filter. Catches a lot of break.

Yeah, I thought about that but it seems my chilling speed while recirculating really seems slow. I think with the whirlpool return and the dip tube both on the edges that it just keeps pumping the same wort through the loop. Plus, leaf hops are kind of a pain for me to store and then clean out of the kettle. Pellets go right down the drain when I am done.

 

[grathan]

What about settling things for a half hour. Will the dip tube rotate upwards to get above the gunk level?

 

[Bobby_M]

It sounds to me that you really just need a bigger badder immersion chiller. Even if you pumped through a hopback prior to the plate chiller, you'll still be putting cold break into the fermenter.

 

[MachineShopBrewing]

It sounds to me that you really just need a bigger badder immersion chiller. Even if you pumped through a hopback prior to the plate chiller, you'll still be putting cold break into the fermenter.

That is what I am starting to think about since yesterday. I don't want one of the normal ones that you just drop in though. I have a rib cage style that I built and used in my previous 11 gallon kettle. I really would want it to hug the outside diameter of the kettle wall so as not to interfere with the whirlpool.

My concern with that is that it would seem that I would be pulling the same wort through the out valve and then returning it back against the chiller unless I pull from the middle, which would clog up the loop with hops and break. That is what seems to be happening with my plate chiller now. I can get down to 120F or so within 5 minutes, but then it takes forever to get to pitching temp in the kettle. I have ended up just running it off into the carboys and it will be at pitching temp then after running right through the chiller and out.

I looked at the hop stopper device and then pulling from the middle, but they specifically say not to use a whirlpool chiller with that device.

 

[MachineShopBrewing]

Ok. I am thinking of building a larger and better immersion chiller than my old ribcage one, and I am going to get rid of my plate chiller. I am drawing a blank right now on the size copper most people use. Is it the 5/8" OD stuff? I know people use two sizes usually, but I want the bigger of the two. I just can't remember which size that is. The one that will take sweat fittings. Just slightly retarded right now.