Typical to see ferm in a few hrs, not this time...

[Dale Gauthier]

Hi all,

I’ve got about 4 batches under my belt, I’ve always seen violent activity in my primary after only a few hrs. But not this time. I only brew Ale thus far and since this one isn’t kicking off I’m scratching my head.

OG was 1.050 on a Citrus Pale Ale. Wyeast 1272. Just strange that this was my first to not show any signs 5 hrs in. Strange? Or have I just been lucky so far?

Thx for any input!
Hd883chopper

 

[IslandLizard]

It could take 24-48 hours before you could see signs.

How old is the yeast?
How was it stored during that time?
Did you make a yeast starter?
Oxygenate/aerate before pitching?
What temp is the fermenter at?

RDWHAHB is usually the best advice.

 

[Dale Gauthier]

It could take 24-48 hours before you could see signs.

How old is the yeast?
How was it stored during that time?
Did you make a yeast starter?
Oxygenate/aerate before pitching?
What temp is the fermenter at?

RDWHAHB is usually the best advice.

Haha RDWHAHB is right. Starting to get some action in there. Whew! I guess I was just thrown off because every Ale ivudone so far (4) has kicked off within an hour of pitching. This one took 7 hrs so the extra few hours made me wince a little.

Yeast was new in a bag from Austin Brewing Wyeast 1272.

Stored in the fridge until I brewed. 5 days.

Yep on a starter.

Didn’t areate before pitching but did stir after a few hrs of no action.

Ferm temp about 73 degrees.

Thx!

 

[IslandLizard]

There's a manufacturing date on every pack/sleeve of yeast. Yeast cell count goes down from there on, depending on conditions. If they get hot or frozen during transport it can take a huge toll. Refrigerated, after 3-6 months only half or less are still viable. The fewer viable cells, the longer it takes to grow new cells up to the starter's size. I've had packs that needed 5-7 days on a stir plate to change color (become light and milky) or start to precipitate. I give them another 24 hours after the color change, sometimes longer. So keep an eye on that next time.

And aerate (or oxygenate) the wort right before or right after pitching. During the 'lag phase' yeast needs oxygen to propagate well. You probably experienced a longer lag this time.

73F is a bit hot for that yeast. 66-68F would be much better. Control your ferm temps, it makes better beer.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Whew! I guess I was just thrown off because every Ale ivudone so far (4) has kicked off within an hour of pitching.

What signs are you seeing in an hour to say fermentation has started? Are you basing it off airlock activity? The only times I see activity that fast is with a big vitality starter, or an overpitch of slurry. FWIW, I don't think that a superfast start to a ferment from a big pitch is good for the beer - they tend (to my tastes) to finish a bit thin. A fast start from vitality starters works nicely though.

 

[Dale Gauthier]

What signs are you seeing in an hour to say fermentation has started? Are you basing it off airlock activity? The only times I see activity that fast is with a big vitality starter, or an overpitch of slurry.

Not airlock activity but in the beer itself. About an hour or so before I made the post I opened it up and gave it a good stir with a sterilized stirring spoon. Then over the next hour or so everything started to settle down again and shortly after that is when I noticed the activity in the beer.

I did a 1500ml starter but decanted at least half off, maybe a little more.
Put a blowoff tube on it just incase it got crazy overnight. Now 10am checking it and some mild activity but nothing too violent. At least not nearly as violent as my other 5 beers.
So as a newbie with all this, when one batch acts way different than the others, it got me worried.

I suspect what IslandLizard mentioned could also be in play. Longer lag time due to under oxygen.

 

[IslandLizard]

I did a 1500ml starter but decanted at least half off, maybe a little more.

What did you decant, clear starter beer off the top after cold crashing?
What did you pitch, settled slurry?

Are you using a yeast starter calculator, such as BrewUnited's to estimate # billion cells to be pitched?

 

[Smellyglove]

After some more batches and some experimenting maybe you'll notice that a quick "violent" start isn't always a good thing depending on what you want from your beer. (To) rapid yeast growth leads to more rubbish the yeast have to clean up after main fermentation, for instance. What you want is control, not necessary quick and violent.

 

[Dale Gauthier]

What did you decant, clear starter beer off the top after cold crashing?
What did you pitch, settled slurry?

Are you using a yeast starter calculator, such as BrewUnited's to estimate # billion cells to be pitched?

Yep clear beer off the top. Starter ran on a stir plate for 24 hrs, then hit the fridge for another 24 hrs. Decanted most of the clear beer, swished it up and pitched the remaining clear beer with all the slurry that was at the bottom before the swish.

I know I’ll probably catch some heat here but I didn’t use a calculator.

 

[Dale Gauthier]

After some more batches and some experimenting maybe you'll notice that a quick "violent" start isn't always a good thing depending on what you want from your beer. (To) rapid yeast growth leads to more rubbish the yeast have to clean up after main fermentation, for instance. What you want is control, not necessary quick and violent.

Thanks and good advice. I’m starting to read more on that through this latest exercise. To prevent that quick and violent fermentation I suppose I should pitch less yeast? If so, I guess that’s where the calculator comes in...

Or could I just leave the starter spinning longer before cold crashing? Basically let the yeast completely consume all sugars and slow down.

So much to learn! Thx all

 

[Gnomebrewer]

To prevent that quick and violent fermentation I suppose I should pitch less yeast?

I suspect in your case you need to pitch at a lower temperature. 73F is too hot for most yeast strains. It will give a faster start to fermentation, but can also lead to undesirable flavours. What temperature did you pitch your first four batches at?

 

[Dale Gauthier]

I suspect in your case you need to pitch at a lower temperature. 73F is too hot for most yeast strains. It will give a faster start to fermentation, but can also lead to undesirable flavours. What temperature did you pitch your first four batches at?

I guess I should have clarified, The air temp was 73 I’m sure the wort is cooler than that. Other batches were in air temps between 70 and 72.

 

[Smellyglove]

Thanks and good advice. I’m starting to read more on that through this latest exercise. To prevent that quick and violent fermentation I suppose I should pitch less yeast? If so, I guess that’s where the calculator comes in...

Or could I just leave the starter spinning longer before cold crashing? Basically let the yeast completely consume all sugars and slow down.

So much to learn! Thx all

You need to pitch at a lower temperature and also keep the beer in a controlled temperature environment. If you'd pitch less yeast you'd get even bigger growth and more flavors associated with that.

 

[Dgallo]

I guess I should have clarified, The air temp was 73 I’m sure the wort is cooler than that. Other batches were in air temps between 70 and 72.

If you air temp is 73, that mean Your wort will eventually hit 73 even if you pitched lower. Also, fermentation causes a temp rise of 6-10 degrees so be careful not to let it run too hot

 

[seatazzz]

You're gonna get some esters fermenting that warm, with that particular strain of yeast. Do you have the means for controlling fermentation temperatures? And chilling your wort post-boil? The ideal is to chill your wort a few degrees below your target fermentation temperature, and letting it naturally rise up to that temperature; then holding it there for primary. A simple swamp cooler will do the trick, and a cheap stick-on fermometer (usually less than $3 at your LHBS) is your friend.

Some esters will fade with time; however, during the time you're trying to get rid of them, your hop nose & flavor will also fade considerably.

 

[Dale Gauthier]

You're gonna get some esters fermenting that warm, with that particular strain of yeast. Do you have the means for controlling fermentation temperatures? And chilling your wort post-boil? The ideal is to chill your wort a few degrees below your target fermentation temperature, and letting it naturally rise up to that temperature; then holding it there for primary. A simple swamp cooler will do the trick, and a cheap stick-on fermometer (usually less than $3 at your LHBS) is your friend.

Some esters will fade with time; however, during the time you're trying to get rid of them, your hop nose & flavor will also fade considerably.

Good info here. Thx as I’m still learning.

Currently don’t have a good way to control ambient temps when fermenting but will be adding an AC in that space soon.

I use a wort chiller post boil and bring the temp down to the 70’s to try to head off fermentation heat. Not sure if this is best practice but has seemed to help.

 

[parjay]

Search for swamp coolers for an easy way to keep temps lower with things that you probably already have handy.