true German festbier (LoDO safe space)

[techbrau]

Trigger warning: LoDO thread! If that's not your thing, then move along!

Continuation of the discussion from here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=491294&page=5

I'll kick things off with screenshots of where that thread left off, before my posts were deleted with:

 

[Big Monk]

I think I can speak for everyone when I say this: this is brewing and shouldn't be personal.

Take a step back and evaluate whether you really think people mean any harm by presenting information on this forum. It's much easier to get offended than it is to take in some new info and decide whether it works for you.

I'll say that Beerery, Techbrau and many others have a huge amount of experience and useful information to dole out. It's all useful stuff in some way or another.

I think Tech is spot on when he talked about using modern methods to produce modern beers. Oxygen exclusion is one of those methods. No smoke and mirrors here. It's all laid out in black and white (well color in many texts!) in very legitimate academic materials, as well as industry magazines and other practical sources.

I'm taking a break from actual brewing for an indefinite period but I am still excited about advances in this conversation. I am still as thrilled to read and learn about this stuff as i was when I brewed regularly and I can say that having been on the opposite side of this argument at one time, that there is so much information for every level of brewer contained in the resources available about this style of brewing.

 

[z-bob]

I'd actually like to see a serious discussion about this, what steps in low-oxygen are the most important (don't say "all of them"), and what can one do brewing small-scale at home and not kegging. I have other processes and techniques that I'm working on now and don't need to add another one yet, but if I can get one step closer to HB Festbier...

I'm working on water treatment now, and will soon be switching from bottled lactic acid to Sauergut to acidify the mash. That scavenges O2 doesn't it? I might get a little LoDO for free.

 

[Big Monk]

I'd actually like to see a serious discussion about this, what steps in low-oxygen are the most important (don't say "all of them"), and what can one do brewing small-scale at home and not kegging. I have other processes and techniques that I'm working on now and don't need to add another one yet, but if I can get one step closer to HB Festbier...

I'm working on water treatment now, and will soon be switching from bottled lactic acid to Sauergut to acidify the mash. That scavenges O2 doesn't it? I might get a little LoDO for free.

The key when using sauergut is to dough-in at a lower temperature to allow the culture to scavenge before killing it off at mash temps.

 

[stpug]

I'd actually like to see a serious discussion about this, what steps in low-oxygen are the most important (don't say "all of them"), and what can one do brewing small-scale at home and not kegging. I have other processes and techniques that I'm working on now and don't need to add another one yet, but if I can get one step closer to HB Festbier...

I'm working on water treatment now, and will soon be switching from bottled lactic acid to Sauergut to acidify the mash. That scavenges O2 doesn't it? I might get a little LoDO for free.

RPIScotty may have some of the most useful information on small batch brewing since that's what he was doing previously. Essentially his system resembled a direct-heat, recirculated, sealed system. Imagine a pot with drain and upper-return port, coupled with a sealed mash cap, and mini pump... all utilizing a stove-like heat source. This allowed for good oxygen mitigation in the hot side process (coupled with deaerating and potential scavengers). Hopefully he'll add more info on this subject.

 

[Big Monk]

RPIScotty may have some of the most useful information on small batch brewing since that's what he was doing previously. Essentially his system resembled a direct-heat, recirculated, sealed system. Imagine a pot with drain and upper-return port, coupled with a sealed mash cap, and mini pump... all utilizing a stove-like heat source. This allowed for good oxygen mitigation in the hot side process (coupled with deaerating and potential scavengers). Hopefully he'll add more info on this subject.

Pug nailed it. Hopefully Tech chimes in here as well. I used a system that was initial inspired by his apartment setup. I later changed a few things as i was working closely with things with The Beerery but the main concepts stayed the same.

Small systems are nice because they allow you to use smaller heat sources, pumps, kettles, etc. All the heavy hitting concepts at the ******************** site and forum apply but in a smaller package.

As for not kegging, I was "bottle spunding" all my beers and typically getting 12-14 bottles per batch.

 

[z-bob]

The key when using sauergut is to dough-in at a lower temperature to allow the culture to scavenge before killing it off at mash temps.

I thought L. delbrueckii was anaerobic. Will it switch to aerobic if oxygen suddenly becomes available?

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I thought L. delbrueckii was anaerobic. Will it switch to aerobic if oxygen suddenly becomes available?

L. delbrueckii is a facultative anaerobe - so it will switch, yep.

Edit: "Switch" is probably the wrong word. It prefers an anaerobic environment, but it can deal with O2.

 

[Big Monk]

RPIScotty may have some of the most useful information on small batch brewing since that's what he was doing previously. Essentially his system resembled a direct-heat, recirculated, sealed system. Imagine a pot with drain and upper-return port, coupled with a sealed mash cap, and mini pump... all utilizing a stove-like heat source. This allowed for good oxygen mitigation in the hot side process (coupled with deaerating and potential scavengers). Hopefully he'll add more info on this subject.

I thought L. delbrueckii was anaerobic. Will it switch to aerobic if oxygen suddenly becomes available?

Lacto is a facultative anaerobic bacteria:

"A facultative anaerobe is an organism that makes ATP by aerobic respiration if oxygen is present, but is capable of switching to fermentation or anaerobic respiration if oxygen is absent."

Die Beerery uses it extensively as his only acidifying agent in his beers and it shows oxygen reduction capabilities when doughing in at temperatures where the bacteria is not killed before it can scavange.

 

[mabrungard]

Another problem with an aerobic environment is that other aerobic wort-spoilers could be lurking. Keeping the system anaerobic is your protection from them.

 

[Big Monk]

Another problem with an aerobic environment is that other aerobic wort-spoilers could be lurking. Keeping the system anaerobic is your protection from them.

This is an interesting point I never considered.