Home Super Brewery Build: Hybrid Electric/Gas 3BBL Build

[marcb]

Took a million pics of in wall wiring and plumbing that I won't bore you with but rest assured the build is moving along at a good pace. Insulation, drywall and taping is all done this afternoon. By the end of the week the FRP and flooring should be done. That leaves paint, finish electrical and plumbing to complete the infrastructure early next week, then the fun part of assembling the brewery and figuring out the details.

Cheers!

 

[Big_Cat]

I wouldnt mind looking at those pics...they serve as ideas which is great

 

[marcb]

I wouldnt mind looking at those pics...they serve as ideas which is great

Here you go

 

[marcb]

Another day older and deeper in debt!

 

[marcb]

FRP is up, cold room is almost complete and final skim coat sanding in the morning and the floor work starts at noon tomorrow! Coming along nicely.

 

[Big_Cat]

Here you go

Beautiful

 

[Big_Cat]

How cold will you be able to maintain that room and at what cost per watts?

 

[marcb]

How cold will you be able to maintain that room and at what cost per watts?

The cold room will be able to maintain 35 degrees easily with the 15k btu a/c unit. No idea on cost yet ; ). Planning on venting the heat from that unit into the ceiling and also have an identical A/C unit on the outside wall to keep the entire garage at 65 degrees except on brew days.

 

[Big_Cat]

The cold room will be able to maintain 35 degrees easily with the 15k btu a/c unit. No idea on cost yet ; ). Planning on venting the heat from that unit into the ceiling and also have an identical A/C unit on the outside wall to keep the entire garage at 65 degrees except on brew days.

Marc did you add anything to vent your co2 gases?

 

[marcb]

Marc did you add anything to vent your co2 gases?

What CO2 gasses? I will have a condensate hood basically 8'x2'x2' covering all of the kettles but the BK's are electric and the strike/sparge will be coming from the tankless mounted outside.

 

[trip2hard]

Looking good!

 

[barryfine]

What CO2 gasses? I will have a condensate hood basically 8'x2'x2' covering all of the kettles but the BK's are electric and the strike/sparge will be coming from the tankless mounted outside.

I think he's talking about the co2 from fermentation.

This build is coming together great! Very impressive.

 

[marcb]

I think he's talking about the co2 from fermentation.

This build is coming together great! Very impressive.

Ah, hadn't considered venting fermentation especially at this low volume....

 

[barryfine]

Ah, hadn't considered venting fermentation especially at this low volume....

Yeah, I don't expect it to be an issue either.

 

[Jaybird]

OHHHH MY GAWD Marc!!! Holy COW man!!! Very nice work!!

Dude do you work or are you just independently wealthy? LOL

You have got a lot done in short order my man!!!

So I must have missed it in the threads.. Where did you buy your fermenters? I like em!! and the walk in is very nice man!

Well done sir! Well done!

Cheers
Jay

 

[Big_Cat]

What CO2 gasses? I will have a condensate hood basically 8'x2'x2' covering all of the kettles but the BK's are electric and the strike/sparge will be coming from the tankless mounted outside.

I mean the CO2 gases produced by your fermenters indide the cooling room you built... trapping co2s in such a tight space without a vent can be a headache and dangerous

 

[mattd2]

Ah, hadn't considered venting fermentation especially at this low volume....

Yeah, I don't expect it to be an issue either.

I mean the CO2 gases produced by your fermenters indide the cooling room you built... trapping co2s in such a tight space without a vent can be a headache and dangerous

Very roughly because I can't find the "exact" info I know is on the internet somewhere approximaetly every gram of sugar releases 0.25 litrs of CO2, so for 3 bbl (350 litres) of 12° you would have roughly 120g of sugar per litre or 42 kg of sugar = 10500 litres of CO2 = dangerous if contained in a small space which is not ventilated properly.

 

[marcb]

OHHHH MY GAWD Marc!!! Holy COW man!!! Very nice work!!

Dude do you work or are you just independently wealthy? LOL

You have got a lot done in short order my man!!!

So I must have missed it in the threads.. Where did you buy your fermenters? I like em!! and the walk in is very nice man!

Well done sir! Well done!

Cheers
Jay

Hi Jay!

Thank You! As beer is a powerful motivator I've had lots of help with this project.... Keeping my wife from killing me, now that is a different story entirely ; )

The fermenters are from Glaciertanks in Portland. They are Chinese but unlike others, the welds are quality and the fact that they hold pressure make them ideal unitanks for both ferms and brites at around $1500 per tank (for the 200l size)

 

[marcb]

I mean the CO2 gases produced by your fermenters indide the cooling room you built... trapping co2s in such a tight space without a vent can be a headache and dangerous

Got it, I'm an ale guy so the only time (I know-famous last words) the fermenters will be in there is for crashing and carbonation. That process will actually create a vacuum and require me to pump in additional co2 to the tank so I'm not too worried about it.

 

[marcb]

Very roughly because I can't find the "exact" info I know is on the internet somewhere approximaetly every gram of sugar releases 0.25 litrs of CO2, so for 3 bbl (350 litres) of 12° you would have roughly 120g of sugar per litre or 42 kg of sugar = 10500 litres of CO2 = dangerous if contained in a small space which is not ventilated properly.

Holy crap, that's some fancy math! Sounds like I should be making beer just to produce CO2.... Forget about all this brewery nonsense, I'm running a CO2 factory!

Well this is certainly food for thought, I'll have to think about this one a bit if it becomes an issue. I will have an 8" vent in the main room for the condensate hood, I could ferment directly under that as everything in the brewery is on wheels and movable.

 

[Big_Cat]

Got it, I'm an ale guy so the only time (I know-famous last words) the fermenters will be in there is for crashing and carbonation. That process will actually create a vacuum and require me to pump in additional co2 to the tank so I'm not too worried about it.

As a fellow brewer i would like to suggest that you add a co2 detector inside your cold room about 16 inches from the ground since co2 is heavier than air..as for your statement about the only time they (beer) will be in there is at crash or carbonation i have a quick question ...at what temperatures are you fermentating outside the chiller or are you running a fermenter with a glycol sleeve?

 

[marcb]

As a fellow brewer i would like to suggest that you add a co2 detector inside your cold room about 16 inches from the ground since co2 is heavier than air..as for your statement about the only time they (beer) will be in there is at crash or carbonation i have a quick question ...at what temperatures are you fermentating outside the chiller or are you running a fermenter with a glycol sleeve?

Good tip on the Co2 detecter, will do. Most of my fermentation is held tight at 68 for IPA's and pale ales. My Belgians ferment starting at 65 and ramp slowly up to ~72. I want to do a Saison like Chamuco brews that ferments at 90! No glycol on the unitanks, I plan on keeping the extremely well insulated room outside the cold room (garage) at about 65. I also have built with Fastev heated/cooled Peltier based fermenters on a smaller scale but may take that approach on these as well.... Still quite a few details to work out.

 

[Dukeman9988]

Hi Jay!

Thank You! As beer is a powerful motivator I've had lots of help with this project.... Keeping my wife from killing me, now that is a different story entirely ; )

The fermenters are from Glaciertanks in Portland. They are Chinese but unlike others, the welds are quality and the fact that they hold pressure make them ideal unitanks for both ferms and brites at around $1500 per tank (for the 200l size)

Since they are only 200L and your brew system is 3BBL do you plan on splitting batches into 2 fermenters or only brewing enough for 200L?

 

[marcb]

Since they are only 200L and your brew system is 3BBL do you plan on splitting batches into 2 fermenters or only brewing enough for 200L?

Not exactly, check out early in the thread. This is really a twin 1.5BBL system. I wanted to be able to brew two different beers at the same time so I designed a 4 vessel system and all the vessels are 200l.

 

[Big_Cat]

Not exactly, check out early in the thread. This is really a twin 1.5BBL system. I wanted to be able to brew two different beers at the same time so I designed a 4 vessel system and all the vessels are 200l.

Question ..so your 4 kettles are 2 kettles and 2 mash tun with a water heater providing the hot water instead of a HLT..am i right?

 

[marcb]

Question ..so your 4 kettles are 2 kettles and 2 mash tun with a water heater providing the hot water instead of a HLT..am i right?

correct!

 

[Big_Cat]

correct!

Nice...I like the idea of being able to make two different brews at once..

 

[tre9er]

Needz moar updatez

 

[marcb]

Ready for floor work!

 

[Nashbrewer]

Very roughly because I can't find the "exact" info I know is on the internet somewhere approximaetly every gram of sugar releases 0.25 litrs of CO2, so for 3 bbl (350 litres) of 12° you would have roughly 120g of sugar per litre or 42 kg of sugar = 10500 litres of CO2 = dangerous if contained in a small space which is not ventilated properly.

I was curious and found the ratio online. Quote from Yahoo answer page "So 1 mole of sugar yields 2 moles of ethanol and 2 moles of CO2. The MW of sugar is 180 (6 x 12 + 12 x 1 + 6 x 16) and the MW of CO2 is 44 (1 x 12 + 2 x 16). Therefore, 180 grams of sugar yields 2 x 44 or 88 gms of CO2. This means that 1 gram of sugar produces 0.244 grams of CO2." From checking Sucrose and Maltose have the same number of atoms and should render CO2 at the same rate.

At 42kg of sugar that produces 1024.8 grams of CO2, or ~522.03 liters of CO2 at STP. Or 1.151lbs of CO2 for every 3bbls. Neat!

 

[marcb]

I was curious and found the ratio online. Quote from Yahoo answer page "So 1 mole of sugar yields 2 moles of ethanol and 2 moles of CO2. The MW of sugar is 180 (6 x 12 + 12 x 1 + 6 x 16) and the MW of CO2 is 44 (1 x 12 + 2 x 16). Therefore, 180 grams of sugar yields 2 x 44 or 88 gms of CO2. This means that 1 gram of sugar produces 0.244 grams of CO2." From checking Sucrose and Maltose have the same number of atoms and should render CO2 at the same rate.

At 42kg of sugar that produces 1024.8 grams of CO2, or ~522.03 liters of CO2 at STP. Or 1.151lbs of CO2 for every 3bbls. Neat!

Ok, now we need to figure out the rate of CO2 emission during fermentation and how best to monitor it! I imagine it peaks early on and tapers down for the remainder of primary fermentation. I need a CO2 meter

 

[Big_Cat]

Ok, now we need to figure out the rate of CO2 emission during fermentation and how best to monitor it! I imagine it peaks early on and tapers down for the remainder of primary fermentation. I need a CO2 meter

Marc is pretty simple ...add a co2 meter at 12-16 inches from the floor and have an exhaust fan ready ..if the alarm goes off turn on the exhaust fan...remember that co2 is heavy so your fan must be low

 

[marcb]

Marc is pretty simple ...add a co2 meter at 12-16 inches from the floor and have an exhaust fan ready ..if the alarm goes off turn on the exhaust fan...remember that co2 is heavy so your fan must be low

I was thinking of graphing it on my BCS as an input per fermenter. That would alert me when fermentation is complete and I can cap the fermenter to naturally carbonate....

 

[Carlscan26]

Marc is pretty simple ...add a co2 meter at 12-16 inches from the floor and have an exhaust fan ready ..if the alarm goes off turn on the exhaust fan...remember that co2 is heavy so your fan must be low

Or just open the roll up door for a moment.

 

[marcb]

Marc is pretty simple ...add a co2 meter at 12-16 inches from the floor and have an exhaust fan ready ..if the alarm goes off turn on the exhaust fan...remember that co2 is heavy so your fan must be low

And for the record, Marc IS pretty simple ; )

 

[marcb]

Floor is ground down, patched, first coat of primer applied.

 

[fastev]

Here's the boil kettles. 200 liter, dished bottom. Tri Clover sanitary ferrules welded from the inside for outlet, thermowell, two elements, and a tangential inlet for whirl pooling. Lids have an additional ferrule for a yet-to-be-designed/built auto sparge assembly and a spray ball for cleaning.
Marc, the last pic is the "mountain of stainless" as you called it I have to move so Christy can park in the garage again. I HAVE to get Humberto over to build my storage area...

 

[mattd2]

Holy crap, that's some fancy math! Sounds like I should be making beer just to produce CO2.... Forget about all this brewery nonsense, I'm running a CO2 factory!

Well this is certainly food for thought, I'll have to think about this one a bit if it becomes an issue. I will have an 8" vent in the main room for the condensate hood, I could ferment directly under that as everything in the brewery is on wheels and movable.

Saying that I think that the major breweries do capture and reuse the CO2 created during fermentation... I think

I was curious and found the ratio online. Quote from Yahoo answer page "So 1 mole of sugar yields 2 moles of ethanol and 2 moles of CO2. The MW of sugar is 180 (6 x 12 + 12 x 1 + 6 x 16) and the MW of CO2 is 44 (1 x 12 + 2 x 16). Therefore, 180 grams of sugar yields 2 x 44 or 88 gms of CO2. This means that 1 gram of sugar produces 0.244 grams of CO2." From checking Sucrose and Maltose have the same number of atoms and should render CO2 at the same rate.

At 42kg of sugar that produces 1024.8 grams of CO2, or ~522.03 liters of CO2 at STP. Or 1.151lbs of CO2 for every 3bbls. Neat!

Now this is the actual fancy maths
But I did notice some things:

180 grams of sugar yields 2 x 44 or 88 gms of CO2. This means that 1 gram of sugar produces 0.244 grams of CO2.

Should that not be 88/180 = 4.89 grams of CO2?

At 42kg of sugar that produces 1024.8 grams of CO2

Using your number that should have been 10248 grams of CO2 (or 20496 grams using 0.489)
and therefore using the same conversion to volume at STP (522.03 litres / 1024.8 grams) it gives ~10500 litres

Good to see that worked out

Sorry for the

 

[hio3791]

Nerd Trap!

 

[Big_Cat]

Nerd Trap!

Lol