PackerfaninSanDiego
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Some recipes call for yeast starters........what happens if I don't use them?
Yeast Starters
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in short yes "you make worse beer"
Under pitching will mean the yeast you pitched will have to work harder to reproduce and convert the wort etc. Will they get the job done? Yes most likely. But chances are stressed yeast will mutate, creating off flavors, undesirable flavors, or just simply not attenuate or finish as good and strong as they can.
Under pitching will mean the yeast you pitched will have to work harder to reproduce and convert the wort etc. Will they get the job done? Yes most likely. But chances are stressed yeast will mutate, creating off flavors, undesirable flavors, or just simply not attenuate or finish as good and strong as they can.
forstmeister
Well-Known Member
Starters ensure that you have a healthy active yeast pitch in your wort. The packages you buy don't contain enough cells to do the job and reproduce rapidly after pitching. You can make perfectly drinkable beer without a starter but it will usually be better with one.
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PackerfaninSanDiego
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so if I don't use a yeast starter, I should think twice about brewing that beer?
You can do it w/o a starter if you pitch multiple packs, but that can get expensive.
If you want to get an idea about how many billions of cells you need for a batch, run it through
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
or
http://www.yeastcalc.com/
If you're going to use liquid yeast, be prepared to accept doing starters as a fact of life.
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Nah. But making a simple starter is very easy. Just boil up some DME in water (no more than 1.030) chill it, pour it into a sanitized growler, flask, or water jug, shake it up real good, pitch your yeast, shake it up again, cover with sanitized aluminum foil.
Starter made.
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PackerfaninSanDiego
Member
here is the recipe in question from Yooper
Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: california lager
Yeast Starter: definitely!
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.056
Final Gravity: 1.015
IBU: 39
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 11 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 days at 62 degrees
Additional Fermentation: "Lagered" for 4 weeks
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 days at 56 degrees
Tasting Notes: This is a "rip off" of Jamil's recipe. It's slightly toasty, and slightly hoppy.
This scored a 38 in the HBT BJCP competition, winning first place in hybrids.
8 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US
1 lbs 4.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L
8.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM)
0.75 oz Northern Brewer [8.00 %] (60 min) Hops 20.7 IBU
1.50 oz Northern Brewer [8.00 %] (15 min) Hops 18.5 IBU
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs California Lager (Wyeast Labs #2112) Yeast-Lager
Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: california lager
Yeast Starter: definitely!
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.056
Final Gravity: 1.015
IBU: 39
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 11 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 days at 62 degrees
Additional Fermentation: "Lagered" for 4 weeks
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 days at 56 degrees
Tasting Notes: This is a "rip off" of Jamil's recipe. It's slightly toasty, and slightly hoppy.
This scored a 38 in the HBT BJCP competition, winning first place in hybrids.
8 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US
1 lbs 4.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L
8.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM)
0.75 oz Northern Brewer [8.00 %] (60 min) Hops 20.7 IBU
1.50 oz Northern Brewer [8.00 %] (15 min) Hops 18.5 IBU
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs California Lager (Wyeast Labs #2112) Yeast-Lager
The yeast requirements change significantly for lagers vs. ales.
I'm approximating a yeast production date of 2/6/13 for these numbers.
5.25 gallons of 1.056 lager wort needs 410 billion cells. That's either 7.6 packs w/o a starter, a 5.3 liter simple starter (think 2-1/2 2 liter soda bottles), or 2 liters of starter done on a stirplate. If you were to do a starter for this, you'd either use one pack and "step up" (start small and build up over multiple steps) or start a big simple starter (or a smaller stirplate one) with 3 packs.
If it were an ale, the # of cells drops to 205 billion (4 packs, 1.8L simple starter, or 1L stirplate).
Numbers are from Mr. Malty.
I'm approximating a yeast production date of 2/6/13 for these numbers.
5.25 gallons of 1.056 lager wort needs 410 billion cells. That's either 7.6 packs w/o a starter, a 5.3 liter simple starter (think 2-1/2 2 liter soda bottles), or 2 liters of starter done on a stirplate. If you were to do a starter for this, you'd either use one pack and "step up" (start small and build up over multiple steps) or start a big simple starter (or a smaller stirplate one) with 3 packs.
If it were an ale, the # of cells drops to 205 billion (4 packs, 1.8L simple starter, or 1L stirplate).
Numbers are from Mr. Malty.
You won't make a worse beer, if you pitch yeast in appropriate amounts. A starter is a way to buy less yeast, and grow the quantity of yeast prior to brewing to save money.
If you make a high OG lager, and pitch four or more vials, the beer will be just as good as one made with a starter. However, with a starter, you can start with one or two vials and grow the yeast to have the same amount as buying four vials.
If you underpitch (too little yeast for the OG) you will not have as good a beer. It may have more off flavors, it may not fully ferment to FG, it may do many undesireable things.
A stirplate and O2 stone, IMO, are great investments in saving money on yeast and making better beer.
If you make a high OG lager, and pitch four or more vials, the beer will be just as good as one made with a starter. However, with a starter, you can start with one or two vials and grow the yeast to have the same amount as buying four vials.
If you underpitch (too little yeast for the OG) you will not have as good a beer. It may have more off flavors, it may not fully ferment to FG, it may do many undesireable things.
A stirplate and O2 stone, IMO, are great investments in saving money on yeast and making better beer.
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PackerfaninSanDiego
Member
so do I need a purchase a stir plate to make a yeast starter? another accessory for the hobby? almost as bad as getting "mods" for my Road King
dstranger99
Well-Known Member
I don't even bother with a stir plate, I use 1 cup DME, some water, boil for 10 minutes, cool to 70, and pitch it right in a mason jar, stir it some, let it sit for 14 hours, give it another stir, and dump it in..........
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No you can simply follow the directions I gave and make a starter. A stir plate will make a bigger starter with less yeast, and less volume because of the air transfer that it forces. But it is not required.
No, you don't have to have a stir plate. However, buy using a stir plate, you generate more cells.
I'll give you an example using a 2L starter, 1 month old yeast, using YeastCalc.
Intermittant Shaking everytime you walk by it.
238 billion cells when finished.
Stir Plate
366 billion cells when finished.
So as you can see, you can walk buy it and give it a good shake, which is fine. But if you can build or buy a stir plate, you can see in the same amount of time, it generated 128 billion more cells.
If your pitching dry packets u don't need one. I've come to accept that some of the liquid strains lose their viability over time. Will it affect the beer, probably not, but i love to play it safe... and more importantly im a gadget guy and love having **** to show off on facebook in my brewing album. That and I love the "tink-tink" sound of the stir bar floating around in the flask.
Either way as long as the smack pack or vial aren't excessively old and viability is decent it shouldn't affect the beer too much although u can find alot of arguments on here for both cases. Guess it comes down to how much time, money and effort u want to designate to your brewing styles.
Either way as long as the smack pack or vial aren't excessively old and viability is decent it shouldn't affect the beer too much although u can find alot of arguments on here for both cases. Guess it comes down to how much time, money and effort u want to designate to your brewing styles.
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PackerfaninSanDiego
Member
Thanks, I'll go with your method....Stir Plates are too expensive for me
Do you have any old computer fans and chargers laying around? I took an old computer fan, a old router charger, went to radio shack, bought a rheostat and switch and built mine own for cheap. I then bought some cheap magnets and stir bar from amazon.
Here it is in action.
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MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
Yeast starters are your friend. With or without a stir plate, you should just commit to making one somewhere in the zone of 24 hours before you brew.
Your fermenter and wort will thank you.
I just screwed up a batch of what is normally excellent beer because I got lazy and didn't take the time to make a starter. Underpitched directly from the smackpack and I'll be left with weak, over-yeasty beer because I had to add additional yeast later on.
Don't be like me, living your life with regrets, shame and stigma. Make a yeast starter and enjoy the terrific sex that comes with it. (Results may vary...)
Your fermenter and wort will thank you.
I just screwed up a batch of what is normally excellent beer because I got lazy and didn't take the time to make a starter. Underpitched directly from the smackpack and I'll be left with weak, over-yeasty beer because I had to add additional yeast later on.
Don't be like me, living your life with regrets, shame and stigma. Make a yeast starter and enjoy the terrific sex that comes with it. (Results may vary...)
:cross:Do you have to actually finish and pitch the starter to get the terrific sex, or just get one going? I need to know what to tell the wife.
+1 on the DIY stirplate. I made mine from leftover stuff and a $1.48 DC-DC LM2596 step down module from China via eBay. I have a 1L starter churning on it now.
