Green Beer, Tap Water, Fermentation Temps

[s1911]

Hello, I have been brewing for a few months and have made about 3 or 4 beers so far... and I have noticed a pattern in my beers... they all have a funny, bitter, off taste to them. I know there are millions of threads about this and that and green beer but I want opinions on my specific situation. I typically have been boiling about 4 gallons.. and ending up with 3.5 gallons after a 60 minute boil give or take a little bit. The rest I top off with tap water, which to my knowledge is not a problem in my area as we have pretty good tap water around here. My past few beers have had an off, sour taste to them and I kind of doubt its the tap water but I'm not sure.

I've been fermenting around 70-72 degrees sadly... Although I have two more batches fermenting in another room which I discovered stays about 5 degrees cooler, allowing my beer to ferment around 67-68 degrees.

Also, for the past couple of beers I have made, I have kept them in primary for a week and in secondary for a week, then bottled... currently I am only doing primary on my current batches for about 3-4 weeks to see how that works out. I typically start cracking into my brew around 2 weeks in the bottle... and none of my beers have outlived 4 weeks in the bottle... so I am not ruling out my beer just being green and me being a noob... but does anyone think it could be something else? such as my tap water, racking times, fermentation temp, or maybe its just not enough conditioning time in both fermentation and in the bottle... I will admit I can be impatient...

Also I do not think it is a sanitation problem... I keep my equipment fairly clean and sanitize all of it while in use ect... people have made beer for thousands of years and im fairly sure I keep my things cleaner than our ancestors...

But, if anyone has any ideas what might be causing this off taste please let me know! Thank you!

 

[RM-MN]

The easiest way to see if the taste you get is from "green" beer is to leave one batch in the fermenter longer. 3 weeks in the primary fermenter and no secondary (that no secondary will help rule out infections, most happen there) then 3 to 4 weeks in the bottles.

Temperature control during fermentation was the single most improvement in my beer. You don't have to keep it cool for long, 3 to 5 days will do but pitching yeast at the cold end of its range and keeping the beer at that temp for those few days really helps.

 

[unionrdr]

He's right. Leave the beer in primary till it gets down to a stable FG. Then here's the kicker-leave it another 3-7 days to clean up by products of fermentation that with high ferment temps,under/over pitching & the like creat off flavors from those normal by products by raising there levels to where you can taste them. Then bottle,& leave them for 3-4 weeks. Then a week in the fridge to settle any chill haze & get co2 well into solution. Your bers should taste better then. You've just been speeding up the process too much is all.

 

[Travestian]

I recently had a bitter taste in my beer even after I was sure it wasn't green. A buddy of mine tasted it, said he had the same problem recently, and suggested it was chloramine in the tap water. It's an alternative to chlorine that water treatment plants are using, and it can not be removed by a standard style water filter except via a flow rate that would make brew day last 3 times as long.

The solution to this is campden tablets. You can pick them up for cheap at any LHBS. I paid $0.99 for 20 of them. For wine paking it is 1 tablet per gallon. However for beer making it is 1 tab for every 20 gallons to remove the chloramine. Doing AG I use about 10 gallons of water for a 5 gallon batch so I only need half a tab. You can find a thread all about it here.

As to the other things you asked about, keeping the beer in primary for longer is always beneficial. And hiding the beer from yourself after it has been bottled for more than just 2 weeks is another very beneficial thing. Everything else you mentioned seems fine to me.

 

[Demus]

Sounds like you know the likely causes already.

Water- as stated above, you can have great tap water but it is still most likely treated with chlorine/chloramine which can effect flavor. Do a batch with bottled spring water and see if it's better. If so, you need either the Camden tablets, stick with bottled water, or better yet send your tap water to ward labs for testing..

Green beer- this young beer flavor is a general term for any off flavor that decreases with age. It's often a fermentation byproduct so it can be avoided be leaving the beer in the fermenter longer. Patient brewers with good temperature control don't usually get this "green" flavor, but any beer benefits from a few extra weeks of conditioning. By the way, this is a "green", kind of under ripe flavor, not a bitter one. Overly bitter or astringent flavors can have many causes including water quality, tannin extraction from improper mash techniques (all grain) or problems with the yeast.

Temperature- one of the biggest areas most new brewers should focus on. Room temperatures are NOT fermentation temperatures. Fermentation generates heat, up to 12 degrees over surrounding during the most activity in a higher gravity beer, so unless you have a room in your house in the high 50's some form of temperature control is key. You need to keep the BEER at a stable temperature for best results. The low to mid sixties is normal for most ales, so you need the ability to vary the surrounding temperature as the fermentation slows down. An extra fridge with a controller is the best way to do this, though many find more creative, less expensive ways to do it...

 

[unionrdr]

"Green" beer isn't a descriptor of off flavors,but a young,muddled,unrefined sort of flavor. The malt & hop flavors generally aren't very refined as yet. That's where carbonation & conditioning come in. That 3-4 week time table isn't just for carbonating,but to give the flavors & aromas time to mellow into their final form.

 

[Demus]

"Green" beer isn't a descriptor of off flavors,but a young,muddled,unrefined sort of flavor. The malt & hop flavors generally aren't very refined as yet. That's where carbonation & conditioning come in. That 3-4 week time table isn't just for carbonating,but to give the flavors & aromas time to mellow into their final form.

I know that, and many folks describe that flavor as green. It's not a factor in every beer with good control over variables, and some beers are actually best young...

 

[unionrdr]

It's not something that is controllable like off flavors. It's a stage the beer goes through,regardless of style. In other words,rough or immature. Some get through this stage faster than others,depending on gravity,dark or light.

 

[Demus]

It's not something that is controllable like off flavors. It's a stage the beer goes through,regardless of style. In other words,rough or immature. Some get through this stage faster than others,depending on gravity,dark or light.

I disagree.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,the later description is from wikipedia,as I was trying to think of a better description of "green" beer. Some beers get through that stage rather quickly,like wheat beers. Hoppy beers I've found take a little longer to mature. to where their flavors are fully realized.

 

[s1911]

Damn that was fast. I'm not sure about my tap water but I have two primaries right now that I kept cool during fermentation and I will age for a few more weeks, then bottle condition longer since I can't take the tap water out obviously and hopefully this will fix my problem... I do know the whole 'unmixed' taste from green beer but this is almost a yeasty taste...so I'm guessing its from racking and bottling too quickly. We'll see how these next two go. Ones a pale ale and ones a strong ale so it will take longer. But hopefully they turn out! Thanks!

 

[Travestian]

You can always sanitize and ziptie a hop bag around your siphon when you rack/bottle. That will help slow the rate at which it sucks and trap some larger particles from getting into the bucket/carboy you are racking to. It won't take out all yeast but it will help.

 

[Demus]

Well,the later description is from wikipedia,as I was trying to think of a better description of "green" beer. Some beers get through that stage rather quickly,like wheat beers. Hoppy beers I've found take a little longer to mature. to where their flavors are fully realized.

Well I've never considered the folks at Wikipedia brewing experts. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Quality of process DEFINITELY effects amount and duration of "green" beer...

 

[unionrdr]

Well,quality of process is part of any good beer. But green beer isn't something you can elliminate like off flavors. It IS part of the process. It's more a matter of the quality of your process governing how long the beer takes to mature. Beyond gravity,style,heavy or light,dark or light.

 

[Demus]

Whatever you say

 

[unionrdr]

Hey,not trying to be a troll or anything. Just stating the facts as I know them to be at this point from experience. Although sometimes,some days,I'm at a loss for the proper words.

 

[Demus]

Troll!

 

[Hackwood]

The wrong person might be getting called a TROLL!

 

[s1911]

Chiming back in on this.. I bottled the cascade pale ale and strong ale I mentioned earlier, after fermenting at 68 and leaving them both for a month in the primary. Both of these beers taste better than any beer I've made, straight out of the bucket with no carbonation. Im assuming it was mostly rushing things that was making my beer taste funny. Also my strong ale hit 73 degrees for a day when it was really hot out during the first few days of fermenting, and it turned out fine...although I would be a little worried if it stayed up there for more than a day. I also used tap water for both of these batches. Thanks everyone for your input!

Also I might add, I did not use a secondary and the pale ale was the clearest beer I've made to date, with the strong ale coming in right behind it.

 

[Demus]

Glad it worked out for ya! Chalk up another win for the primary only crowd...