Would a CO2 leak be deadly?

[dna_alexov]

I just bought all my brew equipment including 20 pound co2 bottle, various kegs and taps. I'm about to keg my first batch and read that I should leave the co2 on at 25-30psi for 2-3 days for proper carbonation.

I was at the local ubrew earlier this week, and they said NOT to ever leave the co2 on when not being dispensed. They said that if a hose or valve leaked, it could kill someone on the bottom floor? They said to only open the co2 when the dispensing becomes slow, otherwise to always leave it off.

So, what is the right answer. I know that CO2 is heavier than air and will sink to the ground. Though is 20 pounds enough to kill people on the bottom floor just walking around the area if it leaked?

Thanks

 

[grasshopper1917]

I dont think a 20 LB bottle would be harmful to the people below unless the tank missled though the floor and hit someone. I could be wrong though....

 

[Jared311]

Actually, large amounts of CO2 can lead to "choke damp" which has been responsible for several miner's deaths. However, I have no idea if 20lbs is enough. I assume if it all pocketed in one area it could potentially starve someone of oxygen and kill them.

 

[Yooper]

Well, I've had a 5 pound co2 tank leak out overnight. I'm still alive.

If you turn the tank off when you're gone for vacation, that's one thing. But if you turn the tank off all the time, you'll have flat beer. Think about this for a minute, though- all of the bars in the world have to turn off their co2 tanks all the time, or risk killing their patrons and neighbors? Um, no.

 

[Trenchant]

Every resteraunt serving fountain drinks keeps their tanks on all the time. They all use 20# tanks.

I know right now my tank has a leak somewhere. I simply turn it off and don't use it. Once I get some time I will spray it down with soapy water and track down the leak. Best way I've found to check for leaks is to turn on the tank and let your guages pressure up. Then turn off the tank. Let that sit for an hour. Check if the guages have moved.

 

[KiltLifter]

To answer the question, yes, 20# of CO2 could be deadly in a small space. CO2 is actually poisonous at higher concentrations. People that get buried in avalanches don't die because they run out of air, they die from CO2 poisoning.

Should you turn it off? NO. Nobody turns them off. If it were dangerous, restaurants would have to do so and there would probably be a big red government sticker. I did get dizzy once sticking my head in my chest freezer looking for a leak. It was a bad pressure relief valve on a keg.

 

[RGH]

The awesome power of C02... It can bring friends and family closer through homebrewing... and then kill them... dead...

 

[madewithchicken]

I have to say i get a bit concerned for my dog. She sleeps in the basement with 2 active (on all the time) tanks and anywhere from 5-20 gallons of fermenting liquids.

She seems okay right now, but it smells a bit because i just started 5 gallons of apfelwien and 9 of cider. It smells kind of like a musty co2 smell.

I have had one of my 2.5# tanks leak out overnight.

 

[Bob]

In an enclosed space, carbon dioxide gas can be deadly. It is heavier than air, and displaces oxygen.

Once, early in my brewing career, I purged a 7bbl Grundy vessel with CO2. The vessel and I were inside a cold room with the door closed. As I began to transfer the beer from primary to the Grundy, of course, the CO2 was pushed out of the top, being displaced by the beer. Grundy tanks have tiny porthole windows to observe the liquid level in the tank, so it took a moment or two to look into the tank.

All of a sudden I started to get really, really dizzy, so I stumbled out of the cold room in order to collect myself. Once I got out of there, I almost immediately felt better. A couple of days later, I told my boss the story and he was very concerned, as I could have died from suffocation.

All that said, should you worry about a leaking 5-lb cylinder and devolving fermenters? No. In the above example, 7bbl (whatever that is in terms of cubic feet) displaced the air in a sealed room in a matter of minutes. I shudder to imagine the homebrew setup what can repeat those circumstances.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[david_42]

A mole of CO2 is 44 grams and 22.4L @ STP. That's about a pint glass per gram. 5% CO2 is directly toxic, so that #20 would poison 4000 cuft. For a 1000 sqft basement, that's half full. Certainly dangerous for any creature that sleeps on the floor.

Based on my Navy experiences, anything over 2% will make you start panting. When I came on watch, I didn't even have to look at the atmospheric readings to know if the CO2 scrubbers were working correctly.

 

[MOSFET]

I've been kegging many years and don't leave them on anymore. Any slow leak can drain the tank, though I've never thought of hazards until now. But I don't see how a beer would go flat in a keg if it's already carbonated. I've never had this happen. To carbonate, I either bring the pressure up and shake the keg gently for a couple minutes, or bring the pressure up, close and disconnect the tank, and it carbonates in 1-2 days. You can always repeat this if you want more carbonation. When dispensing, when and if the flow becomes too slow as the keg drains, I add a little gas, then again shut off the main valve.

 

[bendavanza]

I had a freshly filled 2.5 lb co2 tank rupture it's pressure disc in my kitchen. That was not fun, it scared the hell out of me. I did not consider the risk of suffocation or poisoning.
I was more worried about it blowing up.
I check for leaks occasionally but leave the tanks on almost all the time. Use quality lines, good clamps, and make sure your O rings are in good shape. lubrication helps. I used to leak co2 all the time could not figure it out, it was a brass fitting on my regulator. Soapy sponge squeezed on the fittings revealed it immediately.

 

[McKBrew]

Based on my Navy experiences, anything over 2% will make you start panting. When I came on watch, I didn't even have to look at the atmospheric readings to know if the CO2 scrubbers were working correctly.

Gotta love those submarine atmospheres. Oxygen levels so low that a lighter won't work. I watched a guy build a cigarette lighter out of a battery and paperclip.

As far as issues from a CO2 tank, I wouldn't be concerned. YOu'd have to have a situation where the tank emptied in a very rapid manner. A slow leak should dissipate before causing issues.

 

[natefrog255]

I'm just getting into kegging and have never dealt with CO2 tanks before, now I'm a little nervous. I guess for starters if you don't have leaks, you won't have a problem. I don't know if leaks are common, seems like they are. My tank is only 2.5# so I don't think I'd have to worry about much. And don't think CO2 is flammable so if I had a leak, lit a match in the room, it shouldn't blow anything up.

I'm more worried about the pressure and doing something wrong, and having an exploding tank. I'm guessing the chances of a CO2 becoming a rocket are VERY minimal if secure though. I'd have to almost intentionally try to do it.

Let me know of any items to minimize my risk. Otherwise I'm just going to make sure I have no leaks and keep the tank from falling over & getting hot. I think I should be fine then.

...sorry for the old bump, but the thread is relevant to me.

 

[sleewok]

All you need to do is check your setup for leaks once you get it going. If you have a leak then fix it. If you miss a leak, and it leaks out, you'll be fine. It's not like you're dumping the entire tank in a few minutes. You should be more concerned about losing all the cO2 as a result of a leak vs worrying if you'll die.

You don't have to "secure" your tank. If the tank is in working order you don't have to worry about it exploding or turning into a rocket.

Don't worry about it.

I'm just getting into kegging and have never dealt with CO2 tanks before, now I'm a little nervous. I guess for starters if you don't have leaks, you won't have a problem. I don't know if leaks are common, seems like they are. My tank is only 2.5# so I don't think I'd have to worry about much. And don't think CO2 is flammable so if I had a leak, lit a match in the room, it shouldn't blow anything up.

I'm more worried about the pressure and doing something wrong, and having an exploding tank. I'm guessing the chances of a CO2 becoming a rocket are VERY minimal if secure though. I'd have to almost intentionally try to do it.

Let me know of any items to minimize my risk. Otherwise I'm just going to make sure I have no leaks and keep the tank from falling over & getting hot. I think I should be fine then.

...sorry for the old bump, but the thread is relevant to me.

 

[kombat]

CO2 is extremely NOT flammable. It's used in fire extinguishers because it actively puts fires out.

And a leak cannot develop into a gushing rocket on its own - you'd have to hit the valve or something.

The only real risk I can think of with a CO2 tank is having it in your car and having it leak. It will cause hypoxia and knock you out - possibly while driving. When transporting a CO2 tank, make absolutely sure the valve is tightly closed and there's no leak. If it's warm enough, it wouldn't hurt to drive with the windows down too, just to make absolutely sure.

 

[ajwillys]

My co2 tank is in the garage right next to my gas water heater. My logic: If the co2 leaks terribly, my pilot light will go out, the water will get cold, and my wife will immediately let me know. So, I guess you could say I monitor it

All kidding aside, I have 20 lb tanks and I've dumped them overnight due to leaks. I've never noticed dizziness or anything similar. My garage of course is not very "airtight".

 

[natefrog255]

That's the other thing, we're in a home built in 1991 thus I doubt the thing is airtight. Thanks for all of the information, sounds like I can proceed with minimal worries.

 

[fuzzy2133]

And a leak cannot develop into a gushing rocket on its own - you'd have to hit the valve or something.

The only real risk I can think of with a CO2 tank is having it in your car and having it leak. It will cause hypoxia and knock you out - possibly while driving. When transporting a CO2 tank, make absolutely sure the valve is tightly closed and there's no leak. If it's warm enough, it wouldn't hurt to drive with the windows down too, just to make absolutely sure.

You have to behead the tank valve and it will not go rocketing too far. Liquid CO2 in the tank still has to turn to gas so once the initial pressure is released the rest is minimal.

Any time I transport a CO2 tank I keep the windows at least 1" open so my windows do not blow out if the safety disc bursts. Tanks are pretty stout I have one for running air tools and airing up tires.

 

[Alucard1983]

I Accually have a fire extinshure mount that is epoxied to my kegerator. And my bottle is mounted in there with line running ino the kegerator